Author Topic: Disability on Strictly come Dancing and other reality shows  (Read 719 times)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #15 on: 24 Nov 2021 01:31PM »
I still feel very distressed at the strong emphasis on gay people in a list of reasons to be very afraid of what London is like.  Ditto reference to Black and Asian.

Of course, we could object to non-indigenous people in the UK.  It would take a lot of DNA sampling, though, to get rid of all the descendants of the Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Romans etc. though and leave the country with just the Celts & Picts.

Where I live, a local church had a Black minister in Victorian times.  Not that that was a new thing in this country if you consider Queen Victoria's friend or, for that matter, various other people of colour who came here, for instance, from Elizabeth I's time, or even with the Romans.  But we tend not to notice them because of intermarriage leading to paler skinned descendants.  Mind you, a mate of mine has suggested it would be fairly easy to use colour to get rid of non-indigenous Brits if we chucked out those with non-ginger hair, but I'm not convinced.

As for White Muslims, well that's not new, is it?  Ok, so I think when my father was a teenager in WW2, the attendees at his local mosque (in England, and not in London) were mainly darker skinned, but not all.

As for BBC reporters and other front line BBC staff, they vary widely across the different programmes.  That's basic statistics. 

Likewise, the spread round the country of people who come from elsewhere is not going to be even, because work distribution isn't even between parts of the country, just as work and skills distribution aren't even between countries. 

Yes, I feel very strongly about this.  No, let me be blunt, I feel very upset about this.  The last place I expected this sort of characterisation is in Ouch.

As for this
Quote
So anyone expecting a LGBT+ discussion from me is going to be disappointed.

To me, to introduce the topic of LGBT+, listing 'homosexual' and 'gay' in with various criminals including 'rapist' and 'child killer', i.e. the classic nasty memes that still plague people, and then to say you're not going to discuss the topic is nasty.  Yes, nasty.  It follows on from other things where, over time, you've said something and then refused to discuss the issue you raised.  I've completely misjudged you, OtE.  I thought you just differed from me in some views.  You don't just do that, you say something controversial to get people reacting then refuse to discuss it, just dropping more bombshells.

I've never understood what people get out of that.  I probably never shall.  I guess, though, that forums like this where people are posting because they're accepting of difference make for good targets.

I was only able to make this post with the help of three calls to the Sams since your post yesterday morning, OtE.  Is there nowhere left in this world where being in one or more minorities isn't a reason to be seen as part of a group to be afraid of?

I'm glad I live in an area of the country where amongst the locals it's mostly ok.  There are a few influential people locally who are different.  Climbed up the social ladder, and deflect any awareness of their difference in any way by setting out to portray lots of others as outsiders.  But most of us identify in terms of our town, not in terms of place of birth or colour or religion or sexual orientation or disability.  If someone's settled here, we don't check their birth certificate  before deciding whether to be grateful for whatever they can do for us or we can do for them.

On the other hand, maybe I should go and put a sign up on that nasty foreign Norman church in town.  You'd think those foreigners, clearly non-indigenous intruders who'd be easy to pick out with DNA testing, would have gone home by now.  It's been nearly a thousand years since they took root.  (Yes, sarcasm.)
« Last Edit: 24 Nov 2021 05:36PM by Sunny Clouds »
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Fiz

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #16 on: 24 Nov 2021 02:39PM »
I'm the same Kizzy. People are people whatever their Race, Ethnicity, Religion, sexuality or nationality and I love and enjoy diversity.


I had to look up the Paralympian Kadeena too because I hadn't heard of her. She's lovely. I'm looking forward to watching today's I'm a Celebrity in the morning, poor naughty boy is taking it way too personally but he's cold, tired and hungry so basically HANGRY and I would be too in those circumstances! I think you need inner resillience to cope with the camp and tasks which I don't have. I don't think he has enough either.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #17 on: 24 Nov 2021 04:36PM »
I hadn't heard of her either and also just looked her up on Wikipedia.

I rarely watch sport because mostly it doesn't do it for me, but having read about her, I find her 'inspiring' not so much because she's disabled, as such, but in the wider category of no longer being able to follow a career path because of something so re-purposing her skills, whether into something similar or different.  I find it mind boggling that someone has a career as a runner, faces an obstacle, in her case MS, and diverts into paralympic running and then cycling as well.

I don't mean I don't find her disability relevant - I very much do - just that I also mentally map it onto where people have other obstacles, like, to take the first random example that comes to mind, falling unexpectedly pregnant when doing a career where you can't take your baby round with you, and turning to a career you can do at home.

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #18 on: 24 Nov 2021 05:27PM »
PS - regarding OtE's references to people of a different colour or sexuality from himself, I find it out of order as well to put them in the same sentence as child-killers and rapists etc.   As I alluded to in my previous post, IMO people's worth should be judged by how they conduct themselves towards others, so I have zero tolerance for paedophile murderers and sexual offenders.  Gay, straight or whatever.  A criminal is a criminal, and a decent human being is a decent human being. 

OtE, perhaps you could start to view people as individuals instead of lumping them in your own particular 'oh, I don't like all this diversity and inclusion' group?  After all, we disabled people don't like being dismissed as one mass...  You're also misusing the word 'ethnic' by the way.  We're all of an ethnic origin.

Perhaps you could share with us what your fear is all about regarding those different to you?

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #19 on: 24 Nov 2021 08:59PM »
Fiz - I am liking Kadeena more and more, she comes over as really genuine.  As for Naughty Boy, he may well be 'hangry' but in last night's episode which I have just finished, I think he was coming across as a bit of a diva....

Sunny, if you're going to give 'Strictly' another try, you could do worse than dip in to 'I'm a Celeb' for a bit of light relief - we all need a few laugh-out-loud moments amidst the serious stuff!

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #20 on: 24 Nov 2021 09:47PM »
I shall try I'm a celeb some time over the next few days. 
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #21 on: 25 Nov 2021 10:25AM »
Personally I couldn't care less what race or sexual orientation (or religion) a human being happens to be, I'm more interested in how a person behaves towards others - and a gay Muslim woman or a straight white man, say, are both no better or worse than anyone else.  They're just people, I can't see any issue one way or the other about this.

Fiz, I love 'I'm a Celeb' too, and they have a disabled campmate this year, a Paralympian, though can't recall half their names yet  :f_erm:


Then you are the same as I am, I don't care either but am subject like everyone else to 24/7 lectures on who and what I must accept, of course, I am NOT going to be told that.   I am not going to comply with demands I must either.  Human nature determines what I accept or like or not, as it does with everyone else. if it quacks it's a duck usually.  We are told unless we bend a knee we are racists to black people e.g. that is complete distortion and aggression, they wave fists in our face too, NOT the way to engender acceptance or support.  The BBC handed BLM £400m to produce 'Black output', they removed the deaf and HoH from the BBC site and installed a load of mean-wells with a vested interest, the real disabled don't have anything to do with it.


I won't be drawn into gay stuff I already said that, it is baiting people, then attacking them that's all it does.  These loony tune areas go around doing it on everyone's sites leading people into comment then going at them is they spot a spelling mistake or view that can be seen two ways only THEIR view matters.  I isolate such areas on my computer not interested in that otr the people that subscribe to it. I've spent a lifetime fighting my corner and that of other deaf people, and it is more a divisive and un-addressable area now, than when I started.

We will never shut these people up or get acceptance and access if we are attacked for questioning them.  The idea is sound the way to get it, NOT. I don't know what 'celeb' means it's not a description of a Star is it.  These a transient 5 second wonders hyped up on social media mostly.  Cooks becoming presneters presenters becoming cooks they flog these people to death on our TV sets, until another 5 econd wonder emerges.


The good news is a film covering the Beatles 'Get Back' is coming out, a film about real people making real music who changed the world, not boiled an egg on daytime TV.


Sunny Clouds

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #22 on: 25 Nov 2021 11:53AM »

I won't be drawn into gay stuff I already said that, it is baiting people, then attacking them that's all it does. 


You say you won't be drawn into gay stuff, but it was you who raised the topic, you who gave us a short list of the sort of people that illustrate why we should be afraid of London,  listing 'homosexual' and 'gay' in with various criminals including 'rapist' and 'child killer'. 

More to the point, you mentioned both 'homosexual' and 'gay' in the same short list, thus emphasising that sort of person even more.

Further, given that you also mentioned prostitution, the list was disproportionately skewed toward sexual matters.

So if as you say "I won't be drawn into gay stuff I already said that, it is baiting people, then attacking them that's all it does. "  Then since it was you that raised the topic, applying your own statement to yourself,  it is you that was baiting people and attacking them, not those of us that responded to the topic that you raised.

You have also made issue after issue of people's colour. You do it in a manner where 'we' always maps onto non-Black.  It sounds like you are assuming that no Ouchers are Black.  I'd ask if that was your assumption, but I'm now aware that you raise matters then refuse to reply to them.  Are you, to use your own words 'baiting' then 'attacking' the people who respond to the topics that you raise, not just here but in other threads, to the statements that you make?  No, I know that you will not answer that, but others will read what I have written and draw their own conclusions on the matter.


As for the BBC donation to BLM meme, that's been going round for some time, with the alleged amount increasing over time and is false.  I suggest that you check it yourself on reputable websites such as Reuters and Fullfact.  The myth appears to have arisen from Children in Need making a donation to a Stormzy fund.

In recent times on Ouchtoo, you have denigrated and/or dismissed people of colour, the deaf community (which you repeatedly portray as all having the same views, the same preferred means of communication etc.),  first language BSL people (whom you consistently portray as thereby being monolingual), gay people etc.

I used to think that you had strong views and wanted to persuade people of them.  I now believe that I misjudged you and that you are not interested in persuading anyone of anything, just of expressing a dislike of those with whom you disagree.  More fool me for having let you 'draw in' 'bait' and 'attack' me and others.  I cannot undo my foolishness but I can draw the attention of others to it so that they can learn.

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

ditchdwellers

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #23 on: 25 Nov 2021 12:55PM »
Well said Sunny.
I haven't been around for a day or two and missed this conversation. Thank you Kizzy and Fiz for speaking out on OtEs offensive comments.
This conversation disturbs me. We have inter racial marriage in our immediate family, and close friends who are 'non white'. I'm truly baffled by opinions by the opinions expressed by OtE.

Fiz

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #24 on: 25 Nov 2021 01:37PM »
Yes well said sunny. OtE I find your posts and opinions difficult. You are the only oucher who appears to be unable to be empathic or non judgemental towards others and it's unpleasant to read at times.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #25 on: 25 Nov 2021 02:45PM »
Maybe I should be concerned with all these people of colour around me.  Some get a bit close even in the pandemic.  They do ghastly things like breaching social distancing rules to pick me up when I fall over or to stand up next to me so I can have their seat on the bus.  One even got very intimately close recently under the excuse that he's a qualified and competent doctor and that he was doing precisely what I'd asked him to do.  As for how intrusive that woman of colour was when she was peering through her slit lamp to check out my vision, gosh anyone would think it was ok for her to do her best to stop me going blind. 

Still, it was bad before the pandemic.  There was that supermarket security guard who didn't stick to his job and instead stepped out onto the pavement as I was walking past to stop me being harassed by some drunk people even though I wasn't spending any money in his shop.  What's he doing being kind and brave enough to protect non-customers?  As for the youngster who had music coming out of his smartphone the other day, looked around at intervals to make sure it wasn't annoying anyone, but who nevertheless switched it off when the bus came, honestly, fancy being considerate like that. 

And you should see what those people with brown faces and furrin relions get up to like feeding hungry people.  How dare they?  That's the job of pink Christians. People are supposed to offer food parcels with pasta and other dried food, not offer a hot meal in their funny places of worship as well.  They've even dared to join our local weird interfaith group and work together to distribute help, including school uniforms, Christmas help etc.  Oh, and they've spread their nasty habits so some churches are also offering something hot/cooked.

Even worse, in my mate's synagogue, they've conspired against people by offering somewhere to sit and eat in the synagogue, the cooked food being provided by the mosque group and the food parcels to take  home provided by the church group. Worse, people helping out join with the relevant groups of other faiths like Muslims donating dry food and Christians cooking food etc.  That's without mentioning the Buddhists and Hindus sticking their oar in and stopping people starving.

I don't know how we're supposed to tolerate all this kindness and unity and decency by people with so many different levels of skin darkness, so  many places of birth, so many different religions.

(In the extremely very unlikely situation anyone here doesn't get my point, where I live, all around me are people of all sorts who help one another and I'm very, very grateful to all those that do.)
« Last Edit: 25 Nov 2021 02:58PM by Sunny Clouds »
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #26 on: 25 Nov 2021 03:42PM »
Ditchdwellers and Fiz - thank you.

I'd like to make it clear that I chose not to remove OtE's post #5 for racist and homophobic content as sometimes I feel it's better to leave a post 'out there' to show the whole aspects of the person submitting it.  Also, no-one actually reported it, so just to remind everybody that the option does exist to tell us about anything they see on the board which is of any concern, via 'Report to Moderator' and/or private message if need be. 


In the meantime, this thread is way off-topic now, so can we please get back to disabled contestants on reality shows - and if anyone wants to continue a debate on diversity and inclusion issues relating to race, sexuality etc rather than disability, they can start another thread.  Thanks  :f_smiley:

>edit to clarify what I intended to mean re: diversity and inclusion debate - KK
« Last Edit: 25 Nov 2021 04:08PM by KizzyKazaer »

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing
« Reply #27 on: 25 Nov 2021 04:22PM »
Well said Kizzy  :thumbsup:


I am such a late comer to this thread, who would have thought a discussion thread about a light entertainment would end up revealing so much more about O the E. I am glad people called him out or is it her? I don't know you see and it matters little to me because I judge by words and deeds. Thank you for calling him/her out on what they said.


O the E,


We can all see when a person is a different skin colour and judge them by the way the dress and what we decide to see in them. One thought that came to mind though was it is likely you have interreacted will allsorts of bad people that wear masks.


Also good people wear masking to fit in with what people around us made us. When I was around 17 I was at my dad's house for a family barbeque and he shouted at me for the way I was holding a drink and sitting because it was too manly. My body went from fairly relaxed and comfortable to spaaing out. On other occasions he would ask why is she walking like that and my sister's would say things to keep the piece or make me look bad depending on their mood and aims. When I was at college I spent time with a Sikh girl and looking back I can see I might have had a lifelong friend if I had not been so fearful about who I was, what I did not have, who I was trying to be. Things are different now and while I will always be a tomboy I can't help thinking what life might have been if I could have been non binary I mean I am but history said No so here I am.


As to you well the American word turd comes to mind but you tell me does it fit are you comfortable being assigned the turd designation?


Everyone,


It is better we see 'these' people for who they are. and now that has happened I suspect he/she is going to bugger off for a while. A band would be great too though maybe we should vote on how much kindness do we see in O the E posts?
I am getting ranty now.

Fiz

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing and other reality shows
« Reply #28 on: 25 Nov 2021 06:22PM »
I suspect that too sunshine.


I'm looking forward to I'm a celeb tonight though Richard Madely has left and I liked him far more than I thought I would. He might not have done well at getting stars but he was very wise and caring and supportive of his demoralised fellow camp mates in the clink.


Sunny, if you do have a look at I'm a celeb it might be worth watching the opening show from Sunday evening first. It introduces everyone and puts everything into context. Looking forward to the two new arrivals on the next programme plus Richard will be replaced with someone else. They should switch him for Judy  :f_laugh:

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Disability on Strictly come Dancing and other reality shows
« Reply #29 on: 25 Nov 2021 06:29PM »
Ok, opening show.

It won't be immediately because I'm having trouble concentrating for long, but it'll be in the next week or so.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)