"How do you feel?" - my brain doesn't compute

[ditchdwellers]

May I say something to both Sunny Clouds and Fiz?
I have been following this thread and reading it with interest. You both write so eloquently and logically that I find I'm able to understand your train of thought easily. I can relate to feeling different; it took me a long time before I could accept myself for who I was, and that had little to do with disability.
I'm so sorry that the services that are supposed to help and support are not fit for purpose. I've heard this from so many people who have had contact with different MH services. None have delivered appropriate care.


I'm rambling.  I just want to say how much I value everything you both have written here. Thank you.

[bulekingfisher]

Hello Sunny Clouds


I have thought about this problem + I think you need to be able to express your feeling's through your body but been disable beat's the question (how do you fee ?) so I try to imagine how I felt before I became disabled

[Sunny Clouds]

I hadn't thought of it before in terms of expressing feelings through the  body.

I would interpret that in two ways. The first that comes to mind is in terms of communication with others.  So much that we communicate that way but may not realise we do unless we no longer can.  Socially isolating if we can't do one or more aspects of that.

The second is how we physically sense oru emotions, such as our heartbeat or unsteadiness of hand or whatever.

You brought an image to my mind.  A memory.  I used to do a lot of aikido.  I think that for me a lot of that was physical communication, and another aspect of that  is what those physical sensations meant to me as feelings, as emotions.  I'd never seen it that way.  A feeling of self-assurance, of assertiveness, of being safe and ok.

Upsets translating via movement into feeling better.

This has really set me thinking.

I'd be interested if you'd say more about how the disabled body stuff has affected your feelings. 

[Sunshine Meadows]

A old thread that was definitely worth bringing back.


It felt a little odd reading the posts Fiz made because she can no longer be here. I do sometime wonder if the Ouch Too data base will live well beyond our time on Earth. It is a searchable historical recorded of what was happening in to disabled people especially in its hey day of 2011 until around 2016.


For a long time I would take the question of How do you feel literally and often describe myself in terms of physically wellbeing. In ever much considered my own feelings or emotional states until I went to private counselling. I do feel lucky to have not got entangled with NHS Mental Health Care. Wow that said and donk I remember I did have NHS counselling via my GP back around 2009 after a horrible year or three at work in the call centre.



The answer to the question is context based in terms of what, where and how. If my neighbour says Hi as I am getting into my car and then asks the question I say Good good then complete the verbal handshake with How are you? to which they answer good good. If I am going to talk to a GP I have to really focus on what matters at that point in time. It took me a long time to learn that a lot of people go into a conversation wanting a particular outcome. I am sure I have done that in a semi unconscious way but to do it actively makes me worry am I being manipulative?


When I look at the sad face picture Fiz posted I think about why is the person sad what has happened to them and can I help. I dont think about the mechanics of pen to paper and I think that is because I was looking at the picture in the context of the thread, its heading and what had been said.


In is interesting though because some people who smile all the time and take heart at small things are the most hurt people in their soul.
 

[Monic1511]

If someone says how do you feel my automatic answer is fine. They generally don’t want to hear I’m sore, tired, depressed etc. I did turn it into a joke as I’d be at church and just coming out of a seizure, pale skinned, lips blue and some granny would say how do you feel, I’d say fine but it translated as  off you can see I look hellish. So now when I say fine to some of those folk they laugh and roll their eyes at me.


As you said it depends on context, no one advertises their vulnerability to other folk, doctors have to be in the mood to listen and most are too busy to take the time or their listening to you and thinking aye me too.


I hope everyone is as well as can be 

[Sunny Clouds]

Memory of a conversation about phatic phrases & greetings on a different messageboard a few years back.  Someone mentioned when she was living in an African country (I  realise that's vague, but I don't remember which) and she illustrated their version. 

She was in the reception area of a clinic and a receptionist greeted a patient.  "How are you?"  The response, in accordance with local culture, was along the lines of "I'm fine, and my wife is fine, and my children are fine, and my parents are fine, and everyone's fine."  "And what brings you here today?" "I feel terrible."

To me, that sums up the annoyance for me of not having learnt the word 'phatic' at school, and frustration that so few people seem to know it, because it's at the heart of so many cultures.

I have no sense myself of knowing when someone I know asks how I am whether they actually want to know, so I resort to phrases like "Better days, worse days." "Up and down."  "All the better for your smile." etc.  Then if they really want to know, they can ask, and if it's someone I know, I'm in with a chance of working out what they actually mean when they ask.  Are they asking about my health, my life experiences or what?

It occurs to me that our society's not very good with dealing with many disabilities/impairments, chronic illnesses etc.  We're not sure if it's ok to ask people.

It doesn't help that politicians and parts of the media are so keen to portray disabled people as scroungers and cheats.  People who genuinely care may be wary of sounding like they're challenging the genuineness of our conditions.

Aargh.

I feel...longwinded???!

[ally]

I often went into work in agony.  After two failed spinal ops, and, trying to work was sometimes overly painful.  My colleagues would ask, how are you?  Like others on here, I’d say, I’m fine.  I knew they weren’t interested in how I felt.  They  just felt obligated to ask.  I worked in one department for over eleven years.   Yet, I knew few people.  Most didn’t speak to me, due to being  deaf.  They’d smile, and, scurry off.  To be honest, I wasn’t that bothered.  You choose your friends.  You can’t choose who you work with.
 
On the subject of Fizz.  I can remember saying I didn’t have MH.  Fizz, replied, that we all have MH.  What I meant was, I didn’t have MH problems.  However, like those at the workplace who wouldn’t acknowledge me due to being deaf, in case of embarrassment.  I’ve always felt out of my depth talking about MH issues, in case I offended anyone.  Rather ironic really. 

[Sunny Clouds]

The difficulty with mental health issues is the jargon.  There's been a whole drive to  deal with the 'stigma' of it, starting with referring to 'mental health' not 'mental health problems' or 'mental ill-health' or whatever.  That, to me, sends out a message to people "Beware, people with 'mental health' are touchy about what you say to them."

Then there's the subconscious effect of repeated references to stigma.  If you say 'stigma' and 'mental health' together often enough, in people's minds, there's a mental association, to the extent, in my opinion, that there's a subconscious message received that 'mental health' is awful, or it wouldn't be stigmatising to mention it.

It's one of those disasters that any half-decent linguist could have told the campaigners would be counter-productive.

It's like that trend when building new psychiatric units, not to call them hospitals or clinics or health centres, but to give them silly names.  I think my favourite is one in Birmingham near where a friend of mine lives.  It's called the Zinnia centre. I didn't know until someone told me that that's a flower.

Unless you're the sort of person that spends money on bunches of flowers, the odds are that you've never heard of a zinnia.  And in English, most plant names with a z sound at the beginning actually start with x.  Oh great, unfamiliar name with unexpected spelling.

Meanwhile, I remember talking with a taxi driver I used to know about taking people to psychiatric units with silly names elsewhere.  He say people try to say the name and then just say something like 'the mental hospital', 'the loony bin', 'the psychiatric clinic' or whatever.  So fancy names don't reduce 'stigma', they enhance it, encouraging people to feel they've something to hide.

Expletive ridiculous.

Gosh, I'm in full-on ranty mode.  I had a difficult day, was briefly cheered up by some local people, but arrived home and burst into tears.  I feel knackered.

[ditchdwellers]

   Sunny


I think all of us with chronic conditions are used to putting on a public face to the outside world and a private face where we feel safe to let our vulnerabilities be seen.


This past week I have become very conscious of doing just this. We went on holiday with my son and his family to a rented cottage and had a wonderful time. Whilst packing for the trip I severely injured one of my ribs and really need a steroid injection from my rheumatologist and it hurts just to breathe let alone play with the grandchildren. Yet when we were sat around the first evening after the children were in bed and my son asked me how things were with me at the moment, I didn't mention my ribs. I think I didn't want him to worry, so I spent the entire week pretending that I wasn't in any more pain than usual and trying not to wince with every movement!


My husband had a gout flare up and quick happily lapped up all the sympathy and all I could do was moan to my husband when we were alone 
I became paranoid about the others seeing me in visible pain! Daft isn't it!