Author Topic: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection  (Read 364 times)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #30 on: 20 Jul 2021 11:58PM »
I struggle to find any explanation for what he did that didn't involve dishonesty on his part.
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Fiz

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #31 on: 21 Jul 2021 07:15AM »
Yes Cummings claim's are ridiculous and don't make sense. As much sense as driving your loved ones miles to test your eyesight. He clearly has such little respect for the intelligence of the British public that he'll say anything to try and get out of trouble and somehow thinks people will believe him. I think he's vile. All this Boris vitreol he's spewing at the moment. Some of or much of it may be true but because Cummings is a compulsive liar we can't take his word for any of it. He's obviously not heard the cry wolf story and hasn't realised that lieing so much means people won't believe him now even if he is telling the truth. I don't know which constituents are unfortunate enough to have Cummings as their MP but I do hope that he gets voted out at the next election. I suspect though that wherever it is, it's a safe Tory seat that even a compulsive liar would win. 

The Covid isolation period has been shortened twice since the pandemic began so Javid should be out and about soon. He's been doing zoom meetings. Is it 10 days from first Covid+ test? Thankfully not had it myself so am unaware but my latest double vaccinated friend to get Covid seemed to be out and about 10 days after her test.

JLR2

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #32 on: 21 Jul 2021 08:41AM »
"I don't know which constituents are unfortunate enough to have Cummings as their MP"  Fiz, Cummings has never been an MP, he was part of a group of advisors Johnson brought into Downing Street and though whilst not apparently the boss of these advisors he was the one marked out by the media as the one of most influence on Johnson.

Given the way/manner the government are swatting away much of what Cummings is putting out against Johnson without anything damaging the polling ratings amongst voters who support this government I am beginning to get the feeling we could be being fooled yet again. Might/Could it be that Cummings is actually working with Johnson and his government by providing 'Dead cats' to throw on the table whenever the government needs another distraction causing talking point?   Perhaps this is why during the whole interview with Laura K, Cummings had to use his right hand nearest to the TV cameras to mask the smirk/grin on his face, he just could not keep a straight face something we see with Johnson when he is aware on live TV that what he is saying is so clearly devoid of truth or fact that no person of reasonable intelligence could fail to see it for what it is.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #33 on: 21 Jul 2021 09:48AM »
Quote
I don't know which constituents are unfortunate enough to have Cummings as their MP
He's not an MP, he was a Spad (special adviser).  A Spad is echnically a civil servant, but just while he's in that job, not as a normal career.


(Spad seems to be spelt with umpteen variations of upper and lower case such as SpAD, Spad, spad.)

What I find difficult in relation to this sort of thing is the multi-way variation over repeated liars.

Some are very able, planning their lies, making them consistent, keeping track of them.  The sort where we get documentaries/films about how many decades it took to expose a criminal etc.

Then there are those that are random but know it.  We tend to see Johnson as like that.

Then there are those that come to believe some or all of their lies.  If that seems odd, look back at your life's memories - can you be sure that they're all accurate?  

And there are those that don't remember everything and randomly fill in the gaps and then are sort of stuck.

Etc.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #34 on: 21 Jul 2021 09:51AM »
Wowsers I had no idea he was "just an advisor" and to have such massive political influence without having even been voted in is atrocious! Why hasn't he been sacked?! He should be down the job centre by now. 

I agree it's weird that Boris is just ignoring everything he's saying currently. Possibly he's aware that people know Cummings to be a liar so everything he says is taken with a litre of salt. I'm sure that some of what Cummings says is true but given his pathological nature it's impossible to tell what. 

So much corruption in our current government.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #35 on: 21 Jul 2021 10:36AM »
Wowsers I had no idea he was "just an advisor" and to have such massive political influence without having even been voted in is atrocious! Why hasn't he been sacked?! He should be down the job centre by now....
Spads have been part of our political system for a long time.  It's just that usually they keep their heads down.  That being said, in the long term, I think quite a few PMs and other ministers have made a lot of use of senior career civil servants of the 'Sir Humphrey' variety.

I think also that except when there are scandals over who paid whom, we tend not to notice a lot of the network of people who advise and support politicians, such as where an MP uses their spouse/partner or other relative or close friend as a 'secretary' or 'PA' vel sim.  Usually it only hits the headlines if the pay's a bit high. 

Parts of the right wing media and politicians make a right to-do over the influence of senior trades union officials over the Labour party, which first grew as a trades union party.   But what about the influence over politicians, for example, of the head of their local chamber of commerce, or business association?

The reality is that if you want to get somewhere in politics, you need financial backers, strategists, PR advisers and campaigners etc.  Most very successfully keep their head down, though.  I don't think it helped Cummings to do so that he's visually distinct.  The media would probably have focussed less on him if looked and behaved more nondescript, maybe short and tidy hair, boring grey suit, smart but not too brisk gait, dark briefcase etc.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

lankou

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #36 on: 21 Jul 2021 10:45AM »

Sunny Clouds

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #37 on: 21 Jul 2021 10:51AM »

Spads
Is there a cure for that?
Sadly not.  You think you've got rid of it, then another one pops up.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

JLR2

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #38 on: 21 Jul 2021 10:52AM »
There's something about the timings of many of these stories that has me suspicious of quite what is going on.

Johnson knows most of the country know fine that he is a liar, heck he even has the P45's to prove it but he is also very well aware that holding an eighty seat majority at Westminster the position of the Tory Party is not under any real threat to its hold on power.

We are currently some years away from the next general election and the enquiry into the Covid19 pandemic handling by Johnson's government will not even begin till next year so the chances are Johnson will make as much money, his PM wage and the like, whilst planning his post PM job for when he decides he's had enough. Knowing many Tory MPs in government will say and do whatever it takes to hold onto their jobs (much as Republican senators in the US support Trump in order to secure Trump supporters loyalty no matter what Trump says or does)  so there is not a high chance of any Tory MP challenging Johnson.

I expect Johnson will decide either to quit UK politics and return to the land of his birth, perhaps to retake his US citizenship and make a run for President  :f_laugh: or he'll take a taste of how the country is leaning before deciding if he'd stand a good chance of surviving any inquiry into Covid19 and being re-elected, if he feels he'd be re-elected he may well go for that. When Blair handed the keys to No10 to Brown he had recognised Labour were facing a real chance of defeat in the up coming general election and felt it better to get out as an undefeated PM as against one who had lost such an election, the difference between the two situations could be worth hundreds of thousands of pounds post UK politics for him.

By the time of the next general election both Johnson and Cummings know much of what we are talking about today and no doubt over coming weeks will be have been forgotten by whatever the news of the day is then, this is perhaps why we are hearing all this now and if it begins to look like it will not be forgotten in time for the election Johnson will be gone having taken that taste of the political weather I referred to earlier.

Cummings, I feel, has a strategy to be in a position to make a rapid return to Downing Street if he can get Gove into position as leader of the Tory Party, this is maybe why he has markedly less to say critical of Gove.

I could be wrong :f_smiley:

oldtone27

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #39 on: 21 Jul 2021 10:54AM »
I broadly agree with Sunny Clouds. He did sort of get sacked, but people like him find it quite easy to earn a living ditching dirt, fact or fiction. In politics there is usually a lot of dirt to ditch.

However, I don't think its in Cummings' nature to be a shrinking violet. He likes to be centre of attention and court controversy. for example he when said the Civil Service should recruit more weirdos and misfits if I remember correctly.

I would agree the CS needs people from outside the establishment and it probably has a few, but I think progress is still very linked to the old boy network. Who, not what, you know.

JLR2

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #40 on: 21 Jul 2021 11:04AM »
Alastair Campbell was one of the stronger presence SPADs over recent years, think Iraq war (David Kelly's suspicious death never far from my mind).

Oldtone you just minded me other thing that was not even mentioned last night by either Laura K or Cummings, the marching out of Downing Street by an armed Police officer of the young woman Cummings decided he wanted removed. Laura K didn't think to ask Cummings where he got the authority to give such an order if he was simply an advisor to the country's PM.

oldtone27

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #41 on: 21 Jul 2021 11:11AM »
JLR2, I suspect Cummings is the sort of person to assume authority whether he has it or not and bluff out the consequences.

He did cut a sad figure when he was pictured carrying his box of stuff out of Downing Street. He gets no sympathy from me though.

JLR2

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #42 on: 21 Jul 2021 11:25AM »
For me personally there was a moment when I felt Cummings was being honest the moment being as he explained the security threat to him and his family at their London home. My reasoning for thinking this was I felt many a time seeing him on TV that I'd have been content to see him, let's say out the picture as it were, so I could believe there were threats being made. However as I've mentioned in my earlier postings on this thread when he explained his return to London following his eye test it dawned on me he was actually returning to the London home he had fled for safety reasons.

My point in saying what I just have is to highlight the effect what feels like a grain of truth can have on how folk will view a situation. That grain of truth I felt Cummings had given in his explanation initially had me thinking he was being honest and I could accept what he was saying, trouble is having taken that grain I was allowing it to influence my thinking of the rest of what he was saying. This may be a technique used by politicians then again maybe not but I wonder???

JLR2

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #43 on: 21 Jul 2021 11:33AM »
"He did cut a sad figure when he was pictured carrying his box of stuff out of Downing Street. He gets no sympathy from me though."

I cannot help but feel that was planned and done entirely for dramatic effect between Johnson and Cummings. And as a thought, given the seriousness and amount of work supposedly being done by Cummings the idea that there was no more than a large box required to empty his belongings and paper work from No10 is a joke.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: So now it's Javid's turn to fake Covid19 infection
« Reply #44 on: 21 Jul 2021 01:35PM »
Equally possible spontaneous, but I agree entirely about its being for dramatic effect.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)