Author Topic: Completely shocked at this  (Read 335 times)

Fiz

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Completely shocked at this
« on: 02 Apr 2021 12:41PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56607669

My thoughts are that the government acted very late on locking down the country last year and only in the last few months has acted proportionately but I think this news is a step too far. Older vaccinated people who have full capacity should be able to visit their family if they choose keeping to normal restrictions. If they've chosen to live in a care home then that's their home, not their jail. This is unjustifiable in my opinion.

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #1 on: 02 Apr 2021 09:24PM »
It seems to me that care home residents have been treated as less than second-class citizens well before Covid-19 was a problem (don't get me started on social care funding....)

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #2 on: 03 Apr 2021 11:34AM »
Maybe this has to do with the Government not wanting to get into a situation of defining which type of care home residents can go out and about and which can't I am thinking of how it could be more difficult to have people keep to Covid distancing if they have limited mental capacity. Then again that makes no sense if anyone is allowed to visit people in care homes. What are the rules in that regard at the moment?

I agree with the suggestion people in care homes being treated poorly. I am not sure if if the law was passed but do people who could get PIP lose it when they went into a care home?

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #3 on: 03 Apr 2021 08:46PM »
After 28 days, you lose the care element unless you are completely self-funding, but you keep the mobility element.  AA is treated like the care element of PIP.

I relation to the current rules effectively imprisoning people in care homes, I'm disgusted but not shocked.  I wish the treatment by our society of people in care homes (and needing care in their own homes) was more decent, but it's not.

I tell myself we have to keep fighting for not just equal rights on paper, but a change of attitude.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunshine Meadows

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #4 on: 04 Apr 2021 04:30PM »
Thank you for the Pip info Sunny Clouds.

I thought about the opening post some more and remembered that when Mr Sunshine' father became unable to care for himself because of dementia he was placed in a care home. Mr Sunshine and his sister spent months and months bewildered at the way their father would be see out and about getting in trouble with teenagers bullying him and yet the staff at the care home insisted they could not force him to stay in a safer environment. Years passed and Mr Sunshine's father ended up in a secure place for people with advanced dementia. He can still walk and talk but his mind is gone. 

I think this experience has influenced my response to the opening post. 

:f_peacedove:

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #5 on: 05 Apr 2021 02:24PM »
In relation to people with dementia in nursing homes, my experience of my father being in a care home and then a nursing home was that the level of care was very, very variable, and the knowledge of dementia rubbish.  (Examples follow relating to getting out.)

The care home Dad went into didn't specialise in dementia when he went there but later claimed to.  The manager was a twerp.  A little example relating to patients going where you want them to...she wanted part of the building re-decorated. She didn't listen to staff (or people like me as well) telling her that you have to make the doors you want people go go through easy to find.  Nope, she insisted on having the doors to corridors and rooms white with white frames against white walls.  Then she was puzzled as to why residents who previously happily went through a hallway from one corridor to another suddenly started going through a fire escape.  You know, the door that was easily identifiable as a 'door' not a 'shinier bit of wall'.  Duh.

There are lots of ways of stopping residents getting out and away without their feeling locked in.  When my grandmother was in an asyslum, they had a simple technique - two handles on the door to the ward.  You had to lift one up and push one down at the same time.  They didn't have lost patients or patients distressed at being locked in, only slightly baffled ones.  You can also put a screen across in front of the door and lots of distractions near it.  

And I take a very pragmatic view - in practical terms, there won't be many people who have enough capacity to deal with stuff like that who aren't safe to let out.  The ones that fall into both categories should be somewhere special, but they're a minority.

But then my anger really took off over Dad being portrayed as trying to get out when he wasn't.  He'd be parked in a conservatory and late afternoon (as he was 'sundowning') he'd start saying "I want to go home now."  What he meant was "The function/party is over, where's my transport?"

My advice was to say "But you're booked in for the night.  It's all paid for and the chef's expecting you for breakfast.  Would you like a cup of tea?"  If "it's all paid for" wasn't enough to imprison him, a biscuit as well would do the trick.

But no, if the manager got involved, she'd say he couldn't go home because he had to live there now, but not to worry, I lived round the corner.  Except that what she refused to take on was that my mother's name and mine were the same, so she was telling him that his wife lived round the corner, so he'd think either that she'd be expecting him home so he definitely had to go home, or that she'd divorced him.  I kept saying "You've got residents whose parents visit. If I was his mother, you wouldn't say "Sunny lives round the corner, would you?  You'd say your mother lives round the corner.  So my name is Daughter.  Tell him his daughter lives nearby."

But she wouldn't.  Day after day, she effectively told him his wife had walked out on him.  The savvy staff, mostly underpaid frontline staff, referred to it as a hotel.  The manager said it was lying.  I said it wasn't.  Linguistically it's not significant.  You don't own the place but you're staying there, they do the grocery shopping, the cooking, the cleaning...and because it's posh, they launder your clothes and polish your shoes.

The point I'm making is that if it's not safe to let someone out, how you keep them there has to vary according to the person, especially if the issue of how much mental capacity they have is a bit difficult.  Ironically, in Dad's case, he never knowingly tried to leave the building anyway, even though if he had, he'd have recognised the road and made his way home.  Even if you lock the doors, better to keep them there psychologically through warmth.

And if you do have to lock some in, making most of the rest feel they're there by choice at least reduces their distress at being locked in.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #6 on: 05 Apr 2021 02:34PM »
Re. 'sneaky' (but lawful) way of visiting relatives in care homes...

Some care homes found a neat solution to three simultaneous problems: (1) difficulty recruiting & retaining staff; (2) relatives not being able to visit; (3) people losing their jobs in lockdown.

If you didn't know, you've probably guessed. Yes, it was to recruit relatives as staff.  Win-win.  And if you're a relative that's been visiting in communal areas, you may be familiar to other residents who were used to seeing you coming and going pre-pandemic, so it's not just your own resident-relative who benefits.

Obviously it doesn't work if there are already plenty of staff or if the relatives can't work there or at all for whatever reason, but I was dead impressed at the idea and have read stuff by relatives who were doing it. 

Logically, they don't have to be full-time so long as they're genuinely working.

I wish our government would exercise the same mix of practicality and kindness.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #7 on: 06 Apr 2021 12:43PM »
Oh Sunny your post about dementia care and the way you described the hotel and your distraction techniques was so moving. And you are so right, that's definitely the best way to pacify and soothe a distressed person with memory loss. I think that you would put forward a good case for a change in policy for dementia care. So humane.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #8 on: 06 Apr 2021 10:56PM »
Some countries are way ahead of us on this, although obviously it can vary from one institution to another.

A few years back, a hospital in Germany for elders with dementia came up with a clever gimmick that's been copied elsewhere.  Again, it's about the wandering off problem.

They got a bus stop put up outside the entrance.  It was real in the sense of a real sign, but no buses stopped there.  It said something like "All destinations".  Near it, on the front of the building, was a bench.

The residents would potter out, see the bus stop and look at whatever it was it said.  There was something vague, I think, about bus frequency.  A bit of a wait, so they'd go and sit on the bench.  At intervals, a staff member would come out, say the buses were held up or something, and invite them in for a cup of coffee whilst waiting.

Who needs doorlocks when they can use fake bus stops and warm drinks?

I don't say this stuff always works, but I wish it were more widespread.  Having said that, in the past I've been extensively involved in consultations on working age adult services and where I live it was a complete waste of time.  They weren't interested in what we had to say.  Not even about basics like the lack of availability of sanitary towels.  It's my understanding, though, that in some areas they do care what people say.

I suppose the best we can do is to try to offer feedback and also offer what practicality and kindness we can to individuals, the same as we do to other disabled people.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #9 on: 06 Apr 2021 11:01PM »
As an aside on disabled communication...

I had a good conversation on a bus today.  I felt something on my shoulder and started.  The woman behind apologised and I half picked up with my dodgy hearing that another woman wanted to know whether the bus went to a particular area.  I tried to communicate but struggled.  I wrote a basic message describing the relevant part of the route.

But she wanted more info.  I gave her a piece of card and a biro and she wrote down where she wanted to go.  She wanted a shop in one area, then maybe if she felt up to it, to go to a neighbouring high street.  I used a combination of speech, gesture and diagram to show her.

She seemed terribly understanding of my needing, as someone with hearing problems, to do a lot of my own communicating in writing.  A lot of other people don't get that, but it's to do with people asking for clarification.  If I write it down, they can point. 


Then a penny dropped.  She had crutches.  She understood the disability thing.

Maybe one day we'll get more people who aren't disabled, or who are a bit but don't regard themselves as disabled, to think "That could be me."

When I feel rough (and my mood's been pretty low for a while now), I try to cling onto the fact that amidst all the [insert expletive of choice], there's still a lot of kindness.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #10 on: 07 Apr 2021 11:02AM »
I have an autistic son in residential care who I have seen just twice since November last year.  Regardless as parents we had both jabs and can meet outdoors we still haven't been able to visit him or him us, nor his 4 co-residents.  It seems a combination of LA/SS/care homeowners and insurance companies are unwilling to risk legal action if someone gets infected as a visit result.  To that end NOTHING the regional or national government says has had much effect, my next possibility is said to be May, perhaps!  However, staff at his residence did contract covid, to my mind he would have been safer not there at all but with us.  As he is under 30 it has taken many months to arrange a jab for him yet staff had one, it makes no sense and the hurt their daft decision-making is creating is unfair.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #11 on: 07 Apr 2021 12:47PM »
OtE - that's appalling.

It's so surreal this all-or nothing, starting with a Siege of Caffa type dumping of covid19 patients in care homes and nursing homes, then extreme isolation for people in care homes.  So  much hypocrisy by our government, big business including insurance, and too many of the public.

Not having children, I can barely imagine what it must be like for a parent that cares not to be able to visit their child.  (I say 'that cares' because sadly some parents don't, pandemic or no pandemic, but you very evidently care.)

It's partly a question of whether people with a say in things can care enough to make an effort and have money or community support to do so.  I saw a news item of a care home where they'd set up a sort of plastic sheet/curtain barrier where you could hug through the sheet.  It was carefully and safely designed with sort of sleeves.  I appreciate that hugging may be less relevant for some people with autism, but it's the contrast that gets to me.

OtE - big, big hugs.

:big_hugs:
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #12 on: 08 Apr 2021 10:45AM »
People don't understand even social distancing can be a very real hazard to communication.  We need to be next to him basically.  Obviously, we can text do photos get updates but had huge issues with live video of course because of the difficulties or real-time live translation and him having PDA (Pathological Demand avoidance), and an added aversion to signing use he had problems video-wise and wouldn't speak or anything else.  We have started to overcome that with various manipulations of technology and support help, but it does seem the state is no match for insurance companies they say no it means NO care home owners won't risk having their insurance cover removed and the state won't cover them.  We are less a risk to our son than the system is.
« Last Edit: 08 Apr 2021 10:47AM by On the edge »

Fiz

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #13 on: 08 Apr 2021 05:54PM »
That is so sad ote, it's definitely totally unfair.  :f_hug:

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Completely shocked at this
« Reply #14 on: 08 Apr 2021 10:45PM »
I've just been taking a dekko at the Rights for Residents site to see if they've been making any progress with their campaigns.  No miracles, but if it would help to go somewhere online where there's fellow feeling, OtE, here's the link.

https://www.rightsforresidents.co.uk/
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)