Author Topic: Alternative to vaccination  (Read 260 times)

Sunny Clouds

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Alternative to vaccination
« on: 16 Jun 2021 05:55PM »
In my first year at secondary school, I was due to have a rubella jab.  Then I found a terrific dodge to get out of it.  All I needed was a rash and a high temperature and a few other things like some swollen glands and general aches and pains etc.

I reckon it could work with this coviddy thing.  All people need to do to skive off the jab would be to cough a bit, develop a temperature, get a bit wheezy and drop down dead.  Surely no one would be mean enough to give them a jab in the mortuary?
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #1 on: 16 Jun 2021 06:06PM »
Yep I reckon if they dropped down dead that'd get them out of having the jab for sure.

lankou

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #2 on: 17 Jun 2021 07:43AM »
Why anyone would not want a jab unless there are legitimate medical reasons I really do no know.

Fiz

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #3 on: 17 Jun 2021 08:25AM »
Fear of needles is surprisingly common and difficult to overcome

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #4 on: 17 Jun 2021 09:51AM »
I think there are several reasons why people mightn't want one. 

People's ability to weigh them up may be affected by a range of factors, including mental capacity/ability overall or at this point in time.  Things like low IQ, extreme anxiety, psychosis etc. can make it very difficult, and our society is often better at mocking people than at reassuring and helping them.

There's also the bombardment with information, which may make it difficult to work out what to trust and what not to trust.  

Some simply relate to the antivax movement(s) that have been going on for years.  A general suspicion.  Someone I know who is intelligent and educated to postgraduate level doesn't trust MMR.  How could it be safe to have three vaccines at once?  In vain did I point out that on a daily level bodies develop antibodies to loads and loads of viruses we come into contact with.  If our bodies could only learn how to fight one infection at a time, we'd be lucky to survive the first few weeks of life, much less decades.

Now consider the mass of so-called 'conspiracy theories'.  Before I refer to some, I'd like to make a general point that I feel strongly about.  It seems to me that the typical 'conspiracy theory' is based on not trusting the people who run the world. 

Look around the world and close to home. Can you honestly say you'd trust the rich and powerful people collectively (with exceptions) to seek what they want without causing mass harm to others?  E.g. in your lifetime, how many wars have our governments got involved in in order to sell armaments?  How many wars in the past and now were basically territorial battles over which powerful people get to exploit which lands and peoples?

And I might think "Well of course you can't get a microchip down a vaccination needle."  But there's a general awareness that dogs are 'microchipped' and that 'technology' is getting smaller.  Why would it be odd if some people might think they were going to be microchipped like a dog?

Ah, but why would there be surveillance?  Look at the level of surveillance of people in China.  Now look closer to home.  Relative to area and population, the UK has a very, very high number of CCTV cameras and our police have for some time been trialling facial recognition technology.  Look at the level of storage and sharing of our personal data by official bodies, be they public such as NHS, HMRC etc., or private whether on government contracts or independent.

That hasn't stopped me getting vaccinated, but whilst I try to reassure people, I also feel I understand why they're concerned.

Most of us do our best to take a balanced view of things, to find trustworthy sources of information, to do what we can to look after ourselves and those we care about, whether that's just family or whether it's people in general.  But it's difficult, and complicated by poorly presented information and widespread lack of understanding statistics.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

ditchdwellers

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #5 on: 17 Jun 2021 10:13AM »
I'm still waiting for my second jab. When I turned up at the Parish  hall to have it, it was decided that I had had an allergic reaction to the the first one therefore needed to have the next one in hospital. I'm in the high risk group and still waiting. 

My son is one of the undecided on the vaccine front. My husband has tried to push him to have it and was really cross, but that's totally the wrong way to handle our son. It will just make him more determined to not get vaccinated if told he should.  So I said I understood where he was coming from and we discussed the pros and cons of it in a calm manner but I made it clear that he had to do what he thought was right for him and his family. 

Thankfully we live in a country where we do have personal choice in many areas of our lives, and although I may disagree with people, and frequently do, I value our rights above almost everything.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #6 on: 17 Jun 2021 08:20PM »
Freedom is a very difficult balance when it comes to protecting others. 

I had a wake-up call a few years ago.  Dad was due a pneumonia jab and I initially said no, then went back with my tail between my legs to say I'd changed my mind.  My thinking?  Dad's dementia was pretty advanced, so I'd rather he had a quicker end with pneumonia.  But then I remembered he wasn't in his own home, he was somewhere surrounded by other vulnerable people, many of whom may not be ready to die.

So Dad got his jab and his slower death.  He could be a right wotsit sometimes, but a large part of what he'd spent his life doing was about keeping people safe and well.

We mostly accept limitations on what we do, based around keeping others safe, but it's a difficult balance, isn't it?  It took some doing when car seatbelts were made compulsory to get the message across that it wasn't just about the driver's safety.  In a dangerous situation, if it keeps you from going through the windscreen, it can help you to control your car a bit longer, which might save other people's lives.

I don't want compulsory vaccinations in general, but I do think it's reasonable to consider what jobs they may be appropriately required for.  But then that takes us across to care homes etc.  Different thread.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

JLR2

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #7 on: 20 Jun 2021 08:41AM »
"Alternative to vaccination"?    How about a sudden lead injection?  Sure as heck would stop any further transmission of the virus.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #8 on: 20 Jun 2021 01:59PM »
"Alternative to vaccination"?    How about a sudden lead injection?  Sure as heck would stop any further transmission of the virus.
:f_laugh:

I had a wonderful mental image when I read that.  You see, I'm getting annoyed with maskless people who get too close and you've given me an idea.

I'm not talking about those that can't help being close for some reason, given that  I live in a crowded urban area; and in relation to the ones that are rebelling against social distancing and on the rebound seemingly unintentionly getting closer than normal, I just do my best to keep my distance.  

But I continue to be annoyed and frustrated by the small number of people, mostly male, who are using getting close whilst maskless as a form of bullying/harassment.

You probably all know the sort of people I mean.  Ordinarily, they target people that they perceive as vulnerable, particularly if the target is in a group that regularly gets targetted, such as elders, disabled, people visibly lacking confidence etc.

They get behind someone who's slow and make a big show of impatience; or they get close to someone who's visibly unsteady on their feet, but without something like a walking stick, so they can feign ignorance if the target falls over.  Some are very skilled at groping or implying they're going to grope. 

And now they can get too close and 'threaten' with the virus.  My current fightback if they won't give me space when I ask for it is to say "If I can't trust a stranger not to get close enough to  me not to pass on a deadly virus, I certainly can't trust them not to steal my purse."  Works, wonders. 

But wouldn't it be lovely if healthcare staff who are being harassed by what I'll call 'anti pandemic precautions nuisances' could carry round fake syringes with large needles and some sort of fake company name & logo that has overtones of surveillance?  Surely that would keep the creeps at bay?

Incidentally, may I be clear about something here.  I am well aware that some people who are opposed to a range of provisions to keep people safe genuinely believe it's all a fake 'plandemic' or whatever.  I'm just talking about those that don't respect other people's concerns and other people's personal space.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #9 on: 20 Jun 2021 03:18PM »
I think I have been in so few public places over the last 16 months that I remain blissfully unaware of anybody not wearing masks or invading my space. I went to Pets at Home today and managed to wear a mask for the vast majority of the time then fatigue overwhelmed me then I struggled with breathing so removed my mask. I wear a sunflower lanyard due to my spine and recently people assume the lanyard means you can't wear a mask so hopefully that will cover that. It's only since getting home that I realised the woman at the till with no screen or distance between us hadn't been wearing a mask either. I am so fatigued I just don't notice these things! I actually see it as a positive to fatigue, I literally have no mental energy to worry about anything at all. Having experienced anxiety in the past, it's a blissful relief. I'd probably notice a missing mask had I been going into public places and seeing masked people but I have been shut away apart from medical appointments really.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Alternative to vaccination
« Reply #10 on: 20 Jun 2021 04:34PM »
I'm sorry you're so fatigued, but I can see how it can feel like an up-side not to be aware of some aspects of other people's behaviour.

I've had a bit of a set-to with a friend (or, more to the point, someone I now 'socially distance' from in the pre-pandemic sense) over the issue of physical closeness.

It's a little nicety about our perception of it.  It has come up in lots of conversations relating to the period when my ataxia was at its worst before it went largely into remission, when I had literally hundreds and hundreds of falls outside the house, plus innumerable near misses.   Most were double-tap falls and whilst almost everyone gets what I'm on about with this, just a few don't.

It is perfectly normal in crowded places to 'squeeze past' people, to 'lightly bump into' people etc.  It's socially acceptable in most crowded areas in the UK, I believe.  But the level of impact can be hard enough to knock you over if you have poor balance.

On the other hand, it means that it's perfectly normal not to perceive just how close it's normal for us to get to others.  That has all sorts of social implications, the one I think of most being how easy it is for the small proportion of gropers and up-skirters in our societey to get away with it.

And how many unpleasant people you come into contact with will depend on where you go and the overall number of people.  Numbers can be greatly increased near hospitals, schools/colleges, foodbanks, key transport exchange areas etc.

I watched with interest an online discussion about schemes to re-direct traffic and pedestrians in the part of the country where I live, involving things like blocking off pavements with planters and turning inside-lanes of roads into extra pavement width.

Not only were people's perceptions very different, it became apparent people could have genuinely very different experiences of  the same places depending on time of day and day of week they go there. 

So you can go at a quiet time and if it seems like people weren't invading your space whilst others say "But people do that!", it's actually probable that people weren't invading your space.

That's not to say what you say about fatigue stopping you noticing things isn't true.  I trust your knowledge and understanding of yourself and your experiences.  I just say that people's behaviour also varies massively. 

I hope that your fatigue doesn't blot out too much niceness as well as horridness.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)