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Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 04:39PM »
More musings...

I suppose for me, there is a covid passport issue insofar as I don't like the fact that in some contexts they're being enmeshed in a modern NHS app system with facial recognition, with involvement of private companies.

I don't like what's happened in China and, to a lesser extent, in some other parts of the world, where your face enables you to be tightly tracked and monitored, and it's my understanding that not many countries in the world have as many CCTV cameras in public places as ours. 

So I find myself wondering how far my views on vaccine passports are coloured by my concept of them.  A vaccine passport as a printed item, perhaps with a photo on it, or with a name, address and also the reference number of a photo ID doesn't bother me in the same way.  Perhaps it should.  If the government is happy to let private companies have loads of NHS data, why wouldn't they let them have loads of passport data and driving licence data etc?  The government is pushing for mandatory voter ID, which in practice means intense pressure for every adult to have photo ID, probably in part via introducing a voter card or via introducing a photo NHS card.

Oh dear, so many tangled issues.  I believe in vaccinations, I want vaccinations, but the increasing passion by successive national governments in the UK for more and more ID and entwining of databases make this seem like just another way of deepening that, which isn't just something I don't like, it's something that seriously frightens me.

Oh well.  So much for my thinking my thoughts on this were clear.
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Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 04:05PM »
I value free choice, but can think of quite a few job roles where vaccination against a range of diseases is or would be a reasonable requirement.

People don't seem to object to health professionals and soldiers etc. being expected to have certain other vaccinations. 

And likewise, broadly as a society we accept certain limitations on what people are permitted to do or where they're permitted to go based on what precautions they're prepared to take.  E.g. don't ride a motorbike without a helmet, don't drive if you've got epilepsy that's not been under control for a certain period of time (which for some drivers in effect means don't drive if you're not taking epilepsy medication) etc.  There's a whole range of jobs you wouldn't be allowed to do if you didn't cover up open wounds or skin with conditions that cause it to shed.

So I wouldn't object to vaccination being a requirement for a range of jobs, particularly those involving contact with others who don't have a choice whether to come into contact with you, such as police, prison warders, soldiers, health professionals in non-elective treatment areas, front line jobcentre staff, public transport workers not in a closed cab or booth etc.

I suppose one could allow for exemptions by turning the requirements upside down, as it were, and say that where I, as a member of the public, am required to do something or am entitled to do something, I am entitled to do it in a vaccine-protected environment once vaccines have been available to all, subject to  limited exceptions.

But then I'm a bit of a rebel in saying that I think that those that need care, be it elders or younger disabled people, and who get it in an institution, are entitled to expect that staff should have flu jabs and that if they don't, the resident should have the right to be moved to an institution where they are, at no cost to the resident.

Oh dear, bolshy me.
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Cafe / Re: Old age catching up.
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 03:51PM »
 :thumbsup:
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Cafe / Re: Old age catching up.
« Last post by lankou on 15 Sep 2021 03:38PM »


So if it's a bucket you're using, pass it over here, will you?


It was unisex camping/travel urinal of two litres capacity.  I have now purchased a second one to go with it.
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Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Fiz on 15 Sep 2021 02:36PM »
Unlike my friend, I don't think the vaccine should be compulsory and I don't feel badly towards anyone who turns down their invitation to have it and value free choice. I don't like the misinformation that I read recently in posts by a friend of a friend which was complete twaddle from a clearly antivaxer but feel people should have the choice. Though I do support it being compulsory for frontline health care workers but sympathise with those that will lose job roles due to not wanting the vaccine. I wasn't sure about having another Covid vaccine but if it's the Pfizer which I trust then I probably will.
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Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 12:47PM »
Ah, but the unvaccinated community includes (but does not comprise solely of - people being individuals not stereotypes) people who don't believe the virus is real, sometimes even when they get it - if you're in ICU, you could still believe it's 'ordinary pneumonia'; people who don't believe you can develop a vaccination that fast; people who are led to disbelief by the conflict between those that say vaccines keep you alive and those that say you can be vaccinated but get covid, i.e. aren't being given a strong message that vaccines can reduce likelihood of getting it, and if you do, reduce the severity of it; people who have been conditioned by years of antivax propaganda; and people so jaded by years of dishonesty and cronyism and exploitation by powerful politicians, corporate interests etc. that they have stopped trusting that any new big event/situation that changes our lives isn't just one more ruse to control and/or exploit us.   Etc.

And that's the tip of the iceberg. I'm seething with fury over the rubbish communication people have had over all this.   I'm a nitpicker with a degree and postgrad qualifications from two different universities, and I've struggled with the convoluted mess of information.

I'm not justifying all the unvaccinated, just saying that I'm aware that there are many that think that not getting vaccinated isn't endangering others. 
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Cafe / Re: Old age catching up.
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 12:37PM »
Well it was worth hoping there was an explanation like that that would mean that there'd been some pleasure to compensate for it.  I don't actually want you to feel grot.  Not that I'd embarass myself by admitting I like you.

Mind you, it occurs to me now that I've probably misunderstood.  I perceived it, if you'll forgive the bluntness, as a container you were urinating into in what I'll call 'normal stand up and pee' manner.  But for all I know it could be via a catheter or something, i.e. not so readily adjusted for quantity need.

If, however, it's 'bucket' type thing and you've got a can't-hold-on problem, just before my ataxia went into remission, I was getting fed up with very thick pads and after I'd made some comment on here about thinking back to my long-ago days of using washable sanitary towels, I'd been wondering if I could make some washable incontinence pads, someone told me about ones you can buy and washable incontinence pants.  I thought that was a dead good idea.  Except as I type that, maybe not for camping, but at home?

That being said, you probably know all that anyway and are thinking "Oh, for heaven's sake, that's not what I need!"

I'm annoyed with my bladder at the moment.  I've been having trouble sleeping and was puzzled because even though I'm very depressed about certain things at the moment, I was beginning to believe that wasn't ruminations keeping me awake, I was ruminating because I was awake. Then in the last few days I've realised I'm not going to the loo in the night because I'm waking up (I always did that) but the reverse.  I don't understand.  I'm not going to the loo every five minutes during the day.  Last night, it must have been at least six times, and probably more.

So if it's a bucket you're using, pass it over here, will you?
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Talk / Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 12:26PM »
There's something I'm pondering on.  I'm paraphrasing what you've said, so shan't be offended if you tell me I've misunderstood.

One aspect of what you write appears to be an idea that where children are taught in a BSL-based environment, it brings them up to want to live in an exclusively BSL world.

To me, that doesn't 'compute', either in the usual meaning of the phrase, or in the context of a computer-driven society.  If children around the world with hundreds of different mother tongues grow up with increasing amounts of what I'll call 'computing and internet English', how does a child brought up in a BSL school environment grow up without doing that, unless they have significant learning disabilities or other issues such as psychosis?

That being said, I wonder how far I'm ignorant of how Deaf schools/units are in other parts of the country.  Here, I don't see Deaf children not going to the play facilities or places of worship or whatever with other children.  We'd still see them round about.  Or maybe there are some that we don't, it's just that the ones that we do are more obvious?

The other thing is that I'm then mapping it onto my nearest Deaf centre.  They welcome non-signers with open arms.  But now I wonder whether I'm missing something. Are there what I'll call hidden or secret Deaf communities?
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Talk / Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 12:18PM »
As for schools, the whole scandal of offrolling shows what's gone wrong with inclusive education for SEND pupils.  Likewise punishment cubicles, overly occupied by SEND pupils.

The curriculum in England (don't know about the rest of the UK) is hideously useless for a range of SEND pupils.  I got fed up as a child (with my glue ear not my war damage) with sitting through lessons just copying from textbooks or the board.  In theory these days pupils have teaching assistants or similar to help, but round here it's just token if you can get it at all.  When a school can't even afford enough books or stationery, then funding to produce extra resources for SEND pupils to bring their education up to the level of others in a mixed teaching environment is a struggle.

But some SEND pupils can and do thrive in environments geared up towards their specific needs.  That doesn't mean that if you have two profoundly deaf pupils they will both thrive in the same environment.  Their deafness isn't the only factor.

But we're probably never going to agree about teaching pupils through the medium of BSL because I think we have different views on the importance of multilingualism, and we have, I believe, fundamentally different interpretations of the scientific research into the value of having more than one language in learning those languages.

I get the impression that from your perspective, if a child learns language A then language B, you expect that child to be disadvantaged in language B by comparison with other children, and I'm guessing you've found research on that, whereas I prefer to believe the research that says that the child that learns language A then language B can be advantaged in language B by learning language A, if they are taught in a language B environment.   But then I grew up multilingual. 

I still think in more than one language but no one has ever suggested that my English lacks fluency or accuracy.
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Talk / Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 12:09PM »
Gosh, we do live in very, very different worlds.

When I was on a BSL course, people were on it for lots and lots of different reasons. 

As for the social model, I don't think it's about a blame game.  More to the point, it can be win-win.

For instance, think of the purple pound.  That can seem like just a gimmick, but now think of something that's not about disability but is about difference that can be, in practical terms, a bit disabling in some contexts - left-handedness.  Well, mostly, left-handers adapt, but look how some manufacturers have worked out that there's money to be made from things like left-handed scissors.

Or the classic 'disabled by lack of ramp' illustration.  Older people are more likely to have difficulty with stairs up to buildings,  but they may also be more valuable customers to some of those buildings. 

Back in the nineties, as a 'community leader', I pointed out to councillors that in relation to some of the developments in our town centre, the focus was too much on trendy architecture and a trendy image for the shops.  I pointed out that the disability access was rubbish.  Didn't they want the custom of people with poorer vision, poorer hearing, a need to sit more often, a need to use a walking stick or a wheelchair etc?  They pooh-poohed me. 

Oh dear, now what's happening?  The young, fit, able customers are buying online.  The oldies and wobblies who are still potential customers are even going so far as to drive to other areas to do their shopping.  Meanwhile,  lack of accessibility for disabled people also makes a place less convenient for lots of other people.

Example, you're somewhere where deaf people say they want the information on displays not shouted, and please make them readable.  Visually impaired vice-versa.

Hmm, it's noisy.  You wonder why you've got so many lost and frustrated customers/public.  Oh, you didn't realise that problems with sound discrimination and hearing that's less than good affect about one person in seven, so even if it's just one in twenty or thirty that can't make out your announcements, you've got a lot of chaos in your mall/station/hospital/public buildings.  Oh, guess what, it's annoying some and driving others away.  What a pity that's costing you money and/or alienating your voters/constituents.

So if you make adaptations for some, you can end up making adaptations for others, and it can be worth doing for lots of reasons.
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