Ouch Too

Forum => Talk => Topic started by: JLR2 on 01 Feb 2021 09:51AM

Title: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 01 Feb 2021 09:51AM
It really is getting to be something of a niggle to me now, every day we are being told how good the UK is doing in respect of its roll out of the various covid19 vaccines, well sorry I disagree. The UK's roll out is in my opinion far too slow and far from anywhere near as good as the government would have us believe.

I feel the government's figures should be halved and concentrated on only those who have been provided with both stages of the vaccine. You would not consider a house as having been built if the roof is still sitting on the back of the builder's truck would you? The UK government and that of Scotland are both claiming their roll outs are proceeding well but this is only based on the first dosage and they know, as we do, that the available current Covid19 vaccines require both dosages to be fully effective so only providing the first dosage means of all these numbers being claimed as having been vaccinated very few have actually been fully vaccinated.

Sadly what I feel this is all about is one-upmanship the we did it first, ours is bigger better than theirs or my daddy's bigger than yours of the school playground world. Getting populations vaccinated against Covid19 is more than a time for politicians to be preening themselves and parading around making boasts of how well they are working in the interests of their constituents. The world does not have the time for this carry on, all countries should be working together to see to it that everyone is vaccinated asap.

So far as those who tell us that they will not accept vaccination goes I would say to them fine but understand this you will be moved to a remote self contained place where you can carry on your life in order to protect those who a, have more sense and b, do not want to be an incubator of Covid19 mutants. In other words if not enough people are vaccinated the virus can or could mutate to the point whereby vaccines become ineffective against such mutations.

Even the WHO are getting into the world of fantasy by trying to convince the world that once the vulnerable and elderly are vaccinated the supplies of vaccine should be distributed to poorer countries, well that's a good idea isn't it? Huh?  Get the world vaccinated without gaps where the virus is allowed the time to mutate. Leaving large numbers of the world's population unvaccinated provides viruses the ideal mutation grounds to mutate.

Last little moan I'd like to make known, the numbers of times I've seen the daily vaccination figures being shown on the BBC, half a million here 450k there, remind me just what was the population of the UK at the last census?  I think the figure was around 68 million and this being anywhere near the correct figure suggest to my understanding of arithmetic that it is going to take one helluva long time to vaccinate Britain and by vaccinate Britain I mean fully vaccinate, both dosages having been given.

The government should only be allowed to claim to have vaccinated those who have received both dosages but such a measure of proper vaccination achievement would rob Westminster and Matt Hancock of its boasting materiel wouldn't it.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: lankou on 01 Feb 2021 11:15AM
I got my first "jab" well in advance of when I was expecting it.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 01 Feb 2021 01:18PM
I'm glad to hear that Lankou, my hope is that you will be given the other half of your vaccine, the other half that the scientists have tried to explain to Johnson that is required to provide the best chances of protection against Covid19.  Immunising the whole country with the first dosage will be of no benefit if the second dosages are delivered too late or due to almost predictable muck ups by Hancock's department not delivered at all.

Of course it is just all too predictable what we will hear from Hancock in the event delays do impede people's second dosages, something along the lines of, 'We have run into hitherto unforeseen problems and are working tirelessly to remedy the situation, let me be clear lessons will be learnt from this latest government fiasco' 'Oh and it wasnae me fault, nae chance it wis that 'orrible EU that did it'.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: oldtone27 on 01 Feb 2021 01:42PM
JLR,I take your point, but I think the main issue is not complete protection, which is probably unachievable anyway, but sufficient protection.

I am prepared to believe that a single dose would be sufficient to prevent severe illness (even death) at the reduced risk of some lesser (but survivable) illness.

It also has to be bourne in mind that reducing the burden on hospitals is also a major goal. Apparently there is no evidence of significant hospitalisation of those who have had a the first jab.

The wider the spread the better in my view so this is the right call.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 01 Feb 2021 01:54PM
My fear OT is that failure to get the second dosage of the vaccine completed will allow the virus the time to mutate to the point that the second dosage becomes irrelevant and a completely new vaccine is required to be developed and once again organised into roll out to deal with it.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: oldtone27 on 01 Feb 2021 02:30PM
If we do fail to get a second dose you may be right, but I don't see any reason to suppose there will be an undue delay, provided we keep the EU's sticky fingers off it,
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 01 Feb 2021 03:44PM
I can only but guess how the governments of both the UK and Scotland are organising their respective rollouts but one thing I do get the impression of is that they are doing it far too slowly. To be absolutely honest were I given the task of organising things I doubt I would know where to start short of taking guesses. However it does seem to be storing trouble up for the future for governments to be talking in terms of having the majority of people vaccinated by the autumn. By the time we reach autumn we will be close on looking to implement the flue vaccination rollouts and not long after this rollout the revaccinations of those who were first vaccinated against Covid19. Ideally we should be looking to get the UK vaccinated before the beginning of the summer months.

Anyone declaring their intention to refuse being vaccinated against Covid19 should be informed in no short manner that they will (if in employment) have their employment terminated as having non vaccinated people in the workplace could put those who have taken the vaccine at risk and that is something I feel should not be risked. Where someone objects to being vaccinated on religious grounds goes I would tell them away and pray to whichever God they worship and see if that get them another job, one that would allow non vaccinated believers to put others at risk. Perhaps the Church might just get around to explaining to its worshipers that Covid19 doesn't do religion, rather it looks to kill irrespective of anyone's beliefs.

My message is as simple as it is plain, get the people vaccinated and fast. Everything within the powers of the elected governments of ALL countries should be working together to get as much effort as possible to concentrate the vaccine rollout done. Where there are shortages provide what is needed to overcome these shortages and where companies add their percentage of profit margin before getting vaccines to everyone strip the bosses of such companies of everything right down to their bank account, put them on universal credit till such times as they learn the value of humanity.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: ditchdwellers on 01 Feb 2021 05:03PM
I've just had a text to book my first Covid jab. I'm having it on Friday morning. I could have had it earlier, but Friday is more convenient.
I'm very grateful to be getting it.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 01 Feb 2021 06:05PM
Great news DD, would be good if the vaccine centre you attend is able to offer you some idea as to when you can expect a second vaccine dosage. Watching the Covid19 update on the BBC I was wound up by the prevarication of both Hancock and today's male expert, can't mind his name, who on  being asked why unpaid carers attending with the person they are caring for could not be offered vaccination at the same time. All Hancock did was to pass the hot/awkward question to the expert who promptly chose to repeat government vaccination policy, the rollout program through the various layers of those declared groupings for vaccination instead of saying simply and clearly, 'yes they should be offered a vaccine dosage at the same time'  Oh no can't have common sense used, no let us carry on as we are doing, and if the unpaid carers contract Covid19 and fall seriously ill or die?  Well, 'that's too bad' isn't far from the attitude being shown by the government and today by the government's chosen expert.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: Fiz on 02 Feb 2021 12:04PM
I totally agree with you JR I think the government should only be quoting the numbers of people who have received both vaccines. There would definitely be no 12 week delay between doses then! As it's all about numbers looking good in the media. I'm had my first Pfizer on Saturday so will be 25% protected in under 3 weeks time. As I understand it people who are having the Oxford for which we have far greater stocks and no anticipated delays their second appointments are being made at the same time as their first vaccination but for those having the Pfizer where our second dose hasn't arrived in the UK yet no second appointments have been made as there might be delays at any point. It's a nightmare.

I will have my second vaccination in April and will reach 95% protection late May which is late for someone CEV and yet I am grateful to live in a rich country that can afford vaccines.

Boris hasn't done much right during this pandemic in my opinion.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 02 Feb 2021 07:34PM
Thanks Fiz, I hope you do get your second vaccine dosage and in time for it to be of real worth health wise.

I fear I'm becoming a terrible moaner even the sight of Col Tom on the telly sets me off and from the glimpses I saw a few moments ago on the BBC's news channel I guess he has died so now we will have front pages of him and the BBC along with the rest of the media all wailing about his passing. Sorry but sometimes I just get sick to the back teeth of watching footage of Col Tom in his back garden. I've yet to hear just how big that back garden is, from the pictures I've seen it looks like the back garden of a care home, it looks huge certainly the house is.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: Fiz on 04 Feb 2021 01:29AM
I hear you re:Captain Tom. I am pleased for how happy all the feedback he got from his walk gave him in his last year of life and the money he raised for NHS charities together was phenomenal and praise to those that donated to such a great cause. It funded numerous iPads for ICUs all around the country meaning loved ones could be in contact with their sick and often dying relatives and treats of pamper packages and food was bought for the staff working flat out in overcrowded ICUs amongst many other worthwhile things. Overnight accommodation was paid for staff who needed to isolate from vulnerable family members too.

But I didn't feel sad at his death. He was 100 people tend to die at that age, despite having Covid and many with Covid dying with no family with them he went peacefully with his daughters at his side. The family are exceedingly wealthy. He talked about walking a lap of his garden but it was his driveway from the gate by the road and the driveway goes alongside the side of their very large house. Many other people older than him walked further and many people with disabilities walked further but he started it off and gave the country the inspiration to follow suit. It was a great idea. But I tired of the hundreds of sad (why sad unless you know him and will miss him?) posts on social media about his death. I do think it was right that the country marked his death with a clap due to the money he instigated raising but I hope now that we can move on.

I realise my thoughts will be contraversial!
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 04 Feb 2021 07:56AM
Good morning Fiz, I agree with much of what you were saying and would like to add that the idea I heard of last night in the newspaper reviews of there being a statue erected to Capt Tom is one that I would support. Might be an idea for the NHS to consider naming an as yet to be built NHS hospital after him.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: oldtone27 on 04 Feb 2021 09:49AM
I agree with Fix and JLR. I don't think what he did was a particularly great physical achievement, but he set an optimistic tone and boosted moral just when the country needed it and the politicians were failing.

I like the idea of a hospital named after him, "The Captain Sir Tom Moore Memorial Hospital" has a ring to it. Some people have also suggested a statue and there happens to be a spare plinth in Trafalgar Square which might be just the spot.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 04 Feb 2021 02:50PM
There should be a life sized copy of any statue placed in front of the Health Minister's offices as a reminder of what it takes to get the NHS properly funded.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 08 Feb 2021 09:31PM
Returning to the subject of vaccines, I am getting fed up with the various 'refuseniks' who don't have a valid medical reason to say no to being immunised, especially those employed in care homes.  I know the Government can't make it compulsory, that's not how the UK works and all that, but why should these people think they can continue to put vulnerable people at risk?  They should be re-deployed wherever they can do least damage should they become infected with Covid-19....
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 09 Feb 2021 08:33PM
"They should be re-deployed wherever they can do least damage ..."

They should be suspended, permanently.  Nah skip that idea instead they should be told to leave their place of employment and enlist in the Universal Credit world of life as that will be the only world they will inhabit till they accept vaccination. Certainly they should never be forced to vaccinate, och naw, rather give them a choice having a job or being vaccine free. Vaccine free, I should add, comes with the freedom to live as they please in compulsory quarantine.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: Fiz on 10 Feb 2021 12:16AM
I agree with patient choice wrt to vaccines but am okay with restrictions being placed on people choosing not to have them. And one being that it's okay for care home managers to stipulate that staff must be vaccinated, it's much needed potentially life saving protection for the vulnerable residents in their care so if the staff refuse the vaccine, as is their right then they have to leave their job in residential care.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 10 Feb 2021 09:26AM
Err, how about those refusing vaccination against Covid19 are denied access to NHS services and told they must, if needing health care find a private sector provider of such services to provide it?
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: ditchdwellers on 10 Feb 2021 10:05AM
I think that's going a bit far, otherwise we could say the same thing thing about people who smoke or eat too much,  play sports, drive a car and have an accident etc. Where does it end?

I agree with Fiz. I think her proposal is much more workable and after all, we live in a country were we we have freedom of choice. Thankfully.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: JLR2 on 10 Feb 2021 10:43AM
To some extent I could see an argument for smokers being compelled to seek private health providers for anything relating to their (mine included) smoking but so far as the others you mentioned DD their way of life don't have the deadly impact on thousands of people through the spread of viruses such as Covid19.
Title: Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real
Post by: Strontium Green on 22 Feb 2021 09:23PM
Moved from the UK site

Fiz (http://www.ouchtoo.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=426)

Re: Vaccine roll out and getting real (http://www.ouchtoo.co.uk/index.php?topic=10749.msg140920#msg140920)
« Reply #21 on: 11 Feb 2021 05:42PM »

Some people have genuine fear/terror of the vaccine heightened by the false news circulating, people with mental health difficulties are particularly vulnerable to this fear. It could b detrimental to their mental health to be forced to have the vaccine. It definitely shouldn't be compulsory. It's looking like we're likely to need a few vaccines, as new vaccines are created to cover variants then we'll be having new ones as boosters ongoing for the foreseeable I think.

As for health related issues, addiction and obesity are difficult for people to tackle. People already are punished for smoking with lung and oesophageal cancer, cerebrovascular disease and COPD, I think that is punishment enough personally.