Covid jab

[Sunny Clouds]

I had my second vaccine this afternoon.  I'm very tired but I don't think it's got anything to do with the vaccine as such.  I decided to walk to the centre, which took me about 40 min, but was mostly downhill.  I walked a little afterwards, caught a bus then another bus and did a bit of grocery shopping then walked home.  I've not been getting much exercise, so it wiped me out, but I've no excuse not to get more exercise now my ataxia's in remission.

Also, I didn't get much sleep last night, because I was fretting about stuff.  I only got about 4 hours sleep and I'm an 8 hours person, longer when low. Not long before leaving the house, I called the Sams and was on the phone for an hour, outpouring and trying, with the help of a lovely bloke who didn't presume to tell me what to do, to find more ways to feel positive.  But all that was nothing to do with the vaccine.

Then when I got to the centre, I hadn't put my hearing aids in.  As I explained to the lovely people there, without them, volume's a big problem, but with them, clarity's awful, especially if there's a lot of background noise.

The woman in reception told me to sanitise my hands.  I reached for my own gel in my pocket but she was insistent I should use theirs.  But it felt greasy/waxy and I panicked, wiping my hands down my trousers.  I tried to explain I'm obsessive compulsive and my reaction to it wasn't about the virus, it was a compulsive, knee-jerk "Feels greasy, eek, contaminated, must wash!"  I apologised for making a fuss and said how very grateful I am for them all making sure I get vaccinated.

Then was that horrid bit where they ask for an emergency contact number.  I panicked as I explained the only relative I have wouldn't be interested, he doesn't care about anyone except himself, as I had to accept after he made it clear to me this year.

They were all so lovely and kind and I'm terribly grateful.  In the midst of horridness, there's good stuff.

[Fiz]

I'm glad you have had your second vaccine sunny and if you had the Asda-Vinegar then I hope today goes okay as those that have a reaction tend to feel it most the following day. It's such a relief getting the second vaccine done, knowing you are well protected. Or will be in 3 weeks when it reaches its full effect.

[Sunny Clouds]

The vaccination centre was very efficient.  The only bit I didn't like was going in because they'd got a long zig-zag of barriers, which of course is a sensible way of doing things when it gets crowded, but there was only one other person there, and he came up really close behind me when I entered.

(I find that sort of thing stressful.  As I've pointedly said to a few men who have taken it to extremes, if I can't trust a man not to get close enough to me to pass on a deadly virus, I certainly don't trust him not to get close enough to knock me over or grope me.  I find that comment so much more effective than pre-pandemic world-weary looks or put-downs like "Is that the best you can do?  You must be desperate!")

But inside, there were swarms of helpers guiding people around.  One bloke was adjusting his manner to different people waiting in the last bit of the queuing system, and with me he sort of lightly danced and gestured where to go and so I made a show of lightly hopping into place, which cheered me up. 

I told him I nearly hadn't come.  I said that I'd read online that the vaccine is a plot to inflict some sort of high-tech thing on you, but when I had the first jab, my hopes of getting a smartphone were dashed and all I got was a free life-saving injection to protect me and those around me.

Which is also what I got this time.

Today, my only poorliness is more fatigue and tears from waking early fretting about stuff and trying to blot it out for hours with a puzzle book, so as yet no problems from the vaccine.  Except not getting a free radio mast to carry round with me. 

BTW, it was indeed the Asda-Vinegar.  I hadn't heard that  nickname for it before, and it's definitely added to my vocabulary for future use.

[Fiz]

It seems I am due a 3rd vaccine this winter. As it's to be 6 months from the second dose that means it'll be mid October onwards. My flu jab is October 4th though now they're saying the vaccines can be given together whereas before they'd recommended 2 weeks between them but with new vaccines evidence evolves plus the Pfizer isn't a mild form of the virus to provoke antibodies like the Asda-Vinegar is so I can't see any problem having the Pfizer and flu jabs together.


I have to say if I was the parent of a school aged teen I wouldn't be giving my teen the vaccine. Mostly as the effects/protection is only months and teens without underlying health conditions have strong immune systems. I think my son's partner will definitely be putting her teen forward for it probably as she was pretty unwell with Covid so knows first hand how ill people can be.


The government have said if numbers rise it may be working from home again. So many large organisations and civil servants still are!

[lankou]

I have to say if I was the parent of a school aged teen I wouldn't be giving my teen the vaccine.

Surely that is their decision to make.

[Sunny Clouds]

I think it varies a lot with the individual youngster  but I see it the way I see things like exercise for children.  If your child cycles or uses a skateboard or rides or climbs or whatever, there's a risk of injury, but if they don't, there's the physical and mental risks attached to not getting exercise and fresh air and fun.  So vaccines carry a risk, but it's relative risk.

I suppose the other thing that's very difficult to quantify is the matter of passing the virus on.  Even if you're vaccinated, you can pass it on, but it seems from what I've read that you're less likely to.  It's hard to get good statistics for that, though, because of symptomless covid.

I find the only a few months argument puzzling.  If I had a child and someone said "Your child's terribly good at cycling, so I don't suppose there's not much chance of injury if there's a careless motorist, but I can let you have a helmet for them.  I'm afraid you can only have it a few months, and it doesn't completely guarantee your child wouldn't get concussion if they get knocked off their bike, but it reduces the risk." I'd accept the offer of the helmet for a few months. 

That's set me musing, though, on what short term and longer-term forms of protection we do or don't use in our lives.

[Fiz]

My son and his partner had Covid, the partner pretty badly so I suspect with their being one bathroom and kitchen the teen probably had Covid despite no symptoms so probably has a level of immunity.

[Fiz]

As an aside, a friend has been waiting for spine surgery for many months, she's in intense pain and can do very little and is on very strong pain relief despite not being able to leave the house. She has had surgery cancelled 3 times in the last month due to lack of ICU beds, she has adrenal insufficiency so is a high risk patient and needs an ICU bed on standby though if she's stable she may go from theatre recovery to HCU. One of the cancellations was on the day and she'd got to the hospital. Each time she has been told that ICU is full mostly of unvaccinated patients with Covid. She's furious at people turning down the vaccines because people like her can't have their surgeries etc.

[Sunny Clouds]

Ah, but the unvaccinated community includes (but does not comprise solely of - people being individuals not stereotypes) people who don't believe the virus is real, sometimes even when they get it - if you're in ICU, you could still believe it's 'ordinary pneumonia'; people who don't believe you can develop a vaccination that fast; people who are led to disbelief by the conflict between those that say vaccines keep you alive and those that say you can be vaccinated but get covid, i.e. aren't being given a strong message that vaccines can reduce likelihood of getting it, and if you do, reduce the severity of it; people who have been conditioned by years of antivax propaganda; and people so jaded by years of dishonesty and cronyism and exploitation by powerful politicians, corporate interests etc. that they have stopped trusting that any new big event/situation that changes our lives isn't just one more ruse to control and/or exploit us.   Etc.

And that's the tip of the iceberg. I'm seething with fury over the rubbish communication people have had over all this.   I'm a nitpicker with a degree and postgrad qualifications from two different universities, and I've struggled with the convoluted mess of information.

I'm not justifying all the unvaccinated, just saying that I'm aware that there are many that think that not getting vaccinated isn't endangering others. 

[Fiz]

Unlike my friend, I don't think the vaccine should be compulsory and I don't feel badly towards anyone who turns down their invitation to have it and value free choice. I don't like the misinformation that I read recently in posts by a friend of a friend which was complete twaddle from a clearly antivaxer but feel people should have the choice. Though I do support it being compulsory for frontline health care workers but sympathise with those that will lose job roles due to not wanting the vaccine. I wasn't sure about having another Covid vaccine but if it's the Pfizer which I trust then I probably will.

[Sunny Clouds]

I value free choice, but can think of quite a few job roles where vaccination against a range of diseases is or would be a reasonable requirement.

People don't seem to object to health professionals and soldiers etc. being expected to have certain other vaccinations. 

And likewise, broadly as a society we accept certain limitations on what people are permitted to do or where they're permitted to go based on what precautions they're prepared to take.  E.g. don't ride a motorbike without a helmet, don't drive if you've got epilepsy that's not been under control for a certain period of time (which for some drivers in effect means don't drive if you're not taking epilepsy medication) etc.  There's a whole range of jobs you wouldn't be allowed to do if you didn't cover up open wounds or skin with conditions that cause it to shed.

So I wouldn't object to vaccination being a requirement for a range of jobs, particularly those involving contact with others who don't have a choice whether to come into contact with you, such as police, prison warders, soldiers, health professionals in non-elective treatment areas, front line jobcentre staff, public transport workers not in a closed cab or booth etc.

I suppose one could allow for exemptions by turning the requirements upside down, as it were, and say that where I, as a member of the public, am required to do something or am entitled to do something, I am entitled to do it in a vaccine-protected environment once vaccines have been available to all, subject to  limited exceptions.

But then I'm a bit of a rebel in saying that I think that those that need care, be it elders or younger disabled people, and who get it in an institution, are entitled to expect that staff should have flu jabs and that if they don't, the resident should have the right to be moved to an institution where they are, at no cost to the resident.

Oh dear, bolshy me.

[Sunny Clouds]

More musings...

I suppose for me, there is a covid passport issue insofar as I don't like the fact that in some contexts they're being enmeshed in a modern NHS app system with facial recognition, with involvement of private companies.

I don't like what's happened in China and, to a lesser extent, in some other parts of the world, where your face enables you to be tightly tracked and monitored, and it's my understanding that not many countries in the world have as many CCTV cameras in public places as ours. 

So I find myself wondering how far my views on vaccine passports are coloured by my concept of them.  A vaccine passport as a printed item, perhaps with a photo on it, or with a name, address and also the reference number of a photo ID doesn't bother me in the same way.  Perhaps it should.  If the government is happy to let private companies have loads of NHS data, why wouldn't they let them have loads of passport data and driving licence data etc?  The government is pushing for mandatory voter ID, which in practice means intense pressure for every adult to have photo ID, probably in part via introducing a voter card or via introducing a photo NHS card.

Oh dear, so many tangled issues.  I believe in vaccinations, I want vaccinations, but the increasing passion by successive national governments in the UK for more and more ID and entwining of databases make this seem like just another way of deepening that, which isn't just something I don't like, it's something that seriously frightens me.

Oh well.  So much for my thinking my thoughts on this were clear.

[Sunny Clouds]

Oh well, whilst I dither over whether we should or shouldn't expect others to have covid jabs, and if so, who, and whether or not they should have to prove it etc., I've had a text telling me my GP's got some flu jabs and to phone to book an appointment.  I phoned and was told just to drop in any time they're open.

So at least I can reduce my likelihood of dying from flu as well as reducing my likelihood of dying from covid.  Now can I have a vaccine against dangerous drivers?

[Sunny Clouds]

I've been flu jabbified and I'm very tired but I don't think it's actually the jab that's done it, just my usual go out, be active, come home, wilt thing.

Mind you, that was improving and it's worsened and I now think that a significant aspect is inadequate fluid, which would then leave me wilting if I get more exercise.

How easy it would be, though, having had a jab, to come home and attribute how I felt to that jab.  My bowels aren't very happy today, which I know is down to what I ate yesterday, but again, if I hadn't made the connection, how easy it would be to think the flu jab had upset my gut.

I'm not dismissing side-effects.  I'm aware that people can and do get side-effects from flu jabs.  I'm just musing on how I, and I assume (?) others, can find myself noticing things more if I've done something different.

[ditchdwellers]

I've got my booster Covid jab on Thursday.
Has anyone else had a booster yet? Any effects?