The dreaded PIP review

[Fiz]

The brown envelope arrived today. My PIP review. It has to be received by them by 18th April so I have 17 days to complete and return it and for it to arrive there. I've not long been out of hospital having been detained under the MHA and spend a lot of each day crying as I am no better than when I was detained and this right now feels an impossible task. I have absolutely no help with it either 

[ditchdwellers]

Oh Fiz, those bloody Brown Envelopes 


Is there anyone from church you trust to help you?


Is it possible to request an extension on the time required to send the forms back?  Hopefully Monic or someone will be able to advise.


All I can do is offer Internet hugs and virtual chocolate. Here's plenty of both
 

[Sunny Clouds]

This may sound crazy (but then I am), and I'd find it difficult myself, but if you can't get an extension and you don't feel confident you can get it together to put in your paperwork to the standard you'd require, then maybe re-conceptualise it.

Thus you could remind yourself that a high proportion of DWP jargon is utter nonsense, mostly for political purposes, and conceptualise them as having mis-named this.  Therefore what they're calling a 'review' is actually First Stage Preliminary Paperwork, and what they call a 'mandatory reconsideration' is actually the Full Application Stage.

Hugs from me too.  Oops, sorry, got a DWP naming problem.  This  is actually a lot bigger than it looks.

[Fiz]

I have made more progress than I expected. My problem was always going to be locating the evidence given the chaos that I live in. I have found the PIP and ESA box files which I doubt have anything added to them since my 2018 application but I am hoping that I kept a copy of my 2018 PIP application and that'll be there. I'm all out of spoons and am tearful so I stopped for the day. I have found some hospital admission/discharge letters including my discharge after my overdose in 2020 stating my GCS was 3 and I was intubated and ventilated in ICU etc as well as a few admissions to mental health units, I have been detained twice in the last 8 months I think that evidences my mental health is not that healthy. I don't have any evidence that I have been accepted for tertiary mental health services from the South London and Maudsley Trauma and Dissociation service. I was never sent a copy of the referral letter.


I have the DFG approval for the home adaptions for the wetroom and stair lift. I can't find my diagnosis letter of my tumour which spelt out how it would affect me ongoing. I have the Motability grant letter to adapt the vehicle for a wheelchair hoist and hopefully I can find proof I have the powerchair which should help prove mobility problems. But I can walk distances but with pain so can't say that I can only walk a few metres? I use the chair because standing/queueing is so painful rather than being unable to walk. Carrying things is too painful for my spine too. None of that fits with their stated how many meters I can walk.



The form says not to send any evidence previously sent. So I assume that I complete the form stating things are unchanged or explaining what is worse? Or complete it all as before as if the form is being looked at for the first time but not sending the evidence if it's older than 2018?


I wish I had some help with this but I don't know anyone at the church that I have attended about 4 times since Xmas day and it's not the sort of information that I want to share with strangers. On the list of things not to send is a letter of support from your GP so she can't help.

[Sunny Clouds]

You don't just have to be able to stand or walk or whatever, there's stuff about how you can do it.

From the government's PIP handbook

Reliability For a descriptor to apply to a claimant they must be able to reliably complete the activity as described in the descriptor. Reliably means whether they can do so:
 

• safely – in a manner unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity
• to an acceptable standard
• repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required, and
• in a reasonable time period – no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a non-disabled person would normally take to complete that activity

We recognise that the reliability criteria are a key protection for claimants. Also, as a result of feedback received during the consultation on the PIP ‘moving around’ criteria (held between 24 June and 5 August 2013), measures are in place to ensure the reliability criteria are properly and consistently applied as part of the assessment.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-fact-sheets/pip-handbook

[Fiz]

I probably meet all that criteria for walking as it ignores pain and ignores that often when going from A to B there are times when you need to stand or walk very slowly which is very painful for me. It's the reason that I bought the powerchair. It's most useful at church when people greet you at the door or in the aisle and want to chat which is painful but I would be more than capable of reliably walking from my car into church and to my seat time and time again if it weren't for those pauses and interruptions. This is where descriptors are complete pants. I need the chair but not because I can't repeatedly and reliably in a timely manner walk so many metres. Ho hum. Not sure what to write there.

[Sunny Clouds]

I'm sorry that list didn't help.  Maybe Monic or someone would know of a clause, definition or case that might help with your sort of problem.

[ally]

Have a look at the pipinfo.net site.  Look up back and neck pain, and, take it from there.  It has a lot of regulations and case laws which could be helpful for your pip claim.  You can copy and paste the actual case, and, Google them online.  Hope it helps x
 

[Sunshine Meadows]

Fiz,


Sorry you are having a rough time with PIP review    Am I right in thinking you have a shorter form to fill in not the thicker booklet type on. If so I consider them sending you that as a plus because well it seems to me that they are accepting that the previous 2018 claim was correct and want to know about changes for the better or worse. If it is a review then I would leave off sending anything used in your 2018 claim but you could say something like for example,' Ongoing from the evidence I gave in my 2018 claim related to walking I have become more debilitated and user a power chair. I can walk (describe what walking is like pain and repeatability etc) However when I try to stand still I easily fall over and have to find something stable like a wall to lean on.


If you got the maximum rates for both parts of PIP last time I suggest you focus on showing your level of ability has not got any better (assuming it hasn't). Showing ongoing evidence matters but in some ways I believe  the pain and stress caused to you has to be balanced.


On another note I know someone who had a review date back  in 2020 the paperwork was sent in and the review date has been pushed back to March 2022 and still no news. I woulc think it is likely you can enjoy the summer before you get another brown envelope.


Please note I am writing off the cuff as to my personal experience and don't have any actual training in Welfare Rights.

[Fiz]

Tbh I haven't actually read the form as I panic when I pick it up but yes it's definitely not the full thickness amount of the original PIP application form. I've just read the CAB guide to the review form which said that although the form is wanting to know about any changes, that you should still fully example your difficulties with every activity in full so in some ways it's quite like the original form and I guess that I should have sheets of paper ready to expand on answers. Given my inability to actually start I think I need to contact the DWP to request an extension but the thought of making a phone call to them feels horrendous and I can barely breathe. I dreamt a lot last night all about the wretched form and one part was me queueing up at an open air Nat West branch to request a copy of the referral letter the AMHT Consultant Psychologist had written to add to the referral my GP was making for application for treatment at the South London and Maudsley Trauma and Dissociation service. When I woke up it was bizarre as why would I go to a bank and ask for that plus I don't even bank with Nat West but that letter might actually be useful.


The Consultant Psychologist forgot to send me a copy of the letter and although I suspect my GP has a copy as she'll have been sent it to include with her referral my GP only works 2 days a week and is impossible to get hold of between booked appointments so I phoned AMHT. The Consultant Psychologist was part of AMHT but has left there now but I have asked them to send me a copy of her letter. I was pretty tearful and told whoever answered the phone that I am feeling very overwhelmed and I have no support with my mental health right now and have only had one brief visit from CMHT since being discharged from hospital and have no contacts or support now. She said she would pass this to the team and see if they have any thoughts.


I'm having pretty dark thoughts. I don't cope with stress well.

[Sunny Clouds]

I can't think of anything apt to say except

 

[Monic1511]

Hi Fiz
As it’s a renewal form I suspect it asks are you better, worse or just the same. If you know what points you were awarded in the past make sure you say worse if it’s been worse in the past 6 months.  The test is can you do a task repeatedly reliably and safely for the majority of the time. That means if you say you have 3 bad days a week then you’re ok the majority of the time. So if something is fluctuating make sure you say it’s affecting you 4 or more days per week.


Re an extension, just try and phone the day before it’s due back and explain that you’re just out of hospital and barely functioning so can you get 2 weeks extension.
 

[Sunny Clouds]

An add-on for fixable 'went wrong' things, to give hope...

With my DLA -> PIP, I had lots of time but asked for more, then asked for a reconsideration and had a deadline for that.  The wotsits messed up and did the reconsideration before the deadline, probably because I'd sent them some info, just not all of it (and I did say I was sending more). 

Fortunately, I sent my extra evidence signed-for, so they did another reconsideration, and to my surprise, I didn't actually have to ask them to.  But for all that I feel like screaming when I think of DWP paperwork, they were good with me about extensions and re-doing their 'oops forgot the extended deadline' decision.

(Mind you, given the amount of paperwork I sent them, they were probably frightened I'd send more.)

[Fiz]

I still haven't managed to even read the form. I'm struggling to cope day to day or think about a future to be honest.

[Fiz]

Total nightmare. My GP had said she'd print off a few bits from her system and leave them at reception for me to collect. I needed to collect my medication from the adjoining pharmacy and did that this morning and totally forgot the paperwork from the surgery and was too exhausted to go back again. Someone from CMHT phoned to say that my GP had contacted them concerned about me and that I would be allocated a care coordinator at tomorrow's team meeting but I wouldn't meet them until next week. I mentioned the PIP deadline and paperwork and he said that he would collect it for me and drop it round today. 


When he arrived I asked if he would phone the DWP for me to ask for an extension which he agreed but after 45 minutes in the phone queue he had to leave. I then phoned on my phone and it was answered after 55 minutes during which I fluctuated between panic and tears while waiting. The customer services advisor has given me 4 weeks extension. I mentioned that I might not be able to photocopy things and what happens then and he said phone nearer the time and they could email me a PIP2 form and I could fill that in and return it with attached evidence. I said as it is unlikely that I can get what's needed photocopied could I do that now but he said no, try and fill the form in and get the photocopies and only if that is proving impossible should I phone back nearer the time to do it digitally. The whole system is incredibly stressful and not fit for purpose in my opinion.


I tried to read what my GP printed off but my concentration lasted one page before everything blurred out. Hopefully I will have a care coordinator next week who may be able to help me with it.


If they take almost an hour to answer the phone how can people make an appointment with an advisor to help make a call like that? The advisors just wouldn't have the time surely! So people just have to cope alone.