Over the savings limit

[Fiz]

What happens if you are given over £6000? ie how much is deducted from income related ESA and housing benefit?

Also what happens if I pay for someone to sort my garden out and almost use all the money up? I'm not about to become a millionaire and I'm doubtful it will be an where close to £6000 but my sister is urging me to find out benefits implication in case it is over £6000 whenever or if ever we receive any money next year. Thanks.

[Fiz]

1) I'm worried the money might be over the £6000 and what that will mean

Plus

2) I'm worried if I take a chunk out to may a workman that brings the money under £6000 then the DWP/LA will think I've squandered it on purpose so they don't get the money. I want to spend whatever it is on clearing my garden and making it maintenance free. As best I can anyway.

[Monic1511]

If you have £6000.01 in the bank the DWP deduct £1.00 from your entitlement for every £250 (or part of £250) over the £6000.

So you need to work out how much of your income is income related ESA, 

For every £1000 above the limit they take £4.00 per week

As for spending it - you need to keep receipts to show what you have spent it on and that it was reasonable to spend it, the example they give is you could buy a car but it wouldnt have to be a porche. 

The DWP refer to it as tariff income.

[Fiz]

Thanks Monic. Am I right in that housing benefit with also deduct the same amount as the DWP do? So I will paying the same to both?

[Monic1511]

No if you’re still entitled to 10p income related benefits then you still get full housing benefits

[Big Muff]

Fiz

the DWP will not even notice imo as to do so they would to see your bank accounts and they don't anymore except in exceptional circumstances plus even when "deprivation of capital" was looked into they were looking for the disposal of large sums of money with no reasonable explanation .

[Monic1511]

The dwp don’t need to see bank accounts to become aware of capital.  The banks report savings to the taxman and if you pay tax on savings then you’re likely to have a substantial amount.
I know it’s a hassle but in my view your better safe than sorry.

[Big Muff]

Monic
the GMS (might be called something else now) report just gives amount held so if Fizz had already spent money on the garden which kept her under the capital limit it wouldn't show up .

[Monic1511]

Big Muff
my comment wasn't aimed at Fiz - it was just a point of information for anyone who reads the thread.

I don't know when HMRC pass the info about tax paid on savings to DWP but this is one way the DWP find out about capital.  As for when you spend it - as long as the expenses can be explained its then down to the decision maker to decide if its deprivation of capital or not.


one person got away with giving £50,000 to their son as the tribunal judge believed then when they assured the judge that they never considered the money theirs.  the capital came from the sale of the grandparents home, inherited by adult child who was on income support, they passed the capital to son who spent the lot on 6 weeks. 


It is every person's personal choice if they notify dwp when they exceed the capital limits, I appreciate the hassle that reporting this causes but having spent weeks working with people who didn't tell the dwp about an income because the man in the pub said it was none of their business I would rather folk just told them in the first place.


 >dove<

[Spindrift]

I agree with the idea of it is better to be safe than sorry, however it does also depend on a claimants personality, whether they feel they have a right to live outside the rules in regards to spending capital and also how worrying it would be to them. Thedevil is in the detail and if the DWP are not going to allow us to have a amount of capital to enable us to afford the type of necessities that come and go then they should bring back the Social Fund. 

Also there are consequences to getting caught eg a claimant could get labelled as dishonesty.

One thing I have wondered if assets such as gold or silver can be counted as capital.

[Big Muff]

 

I agree with the idea of it is better to be safe than sorry, however it does also depend on a claimants personality, whether they feel they have a right to live outside the rules in regards to spending capital and also how worrying it would be to them. Thedevil is in the detail and if the DWP are not going to allow us to have a amount of capital to enable us to afford the type of necessities that come and go then they should bring back the Social Fund.

Also there are consequences to getting caught eg a claimant could get labelled as dishonesty.

One thing I have wondered if assets such as gold or silver can be counted as capital.

Yes Gold & Silver can be counted as capital but imo only if it was obvious that it was being bought to circumvent the capital rules i.e. buying £10k of Kruggerands not if you're talking about personal jewellery .

[Monic1511]

Re Gold & Silver being counted

it would need to be significant amounts - I mean if you have a pile of jewellery, ropes of gold chains etc, a picky dwp person might ask you to flog them before asking for a crisis grant but I don't think they would count it as capital.   Its never said in the forms do you have gold bars (under the bed)  its do you own or have any : stocks, shares, PEPS, ISAS's income bonds, capital bonds, government stock, trust funds (except certain ones related to terrorist incidents).  then its do you own any property or time shares in the UK or abroad.   That's the wee flat in Spain they're asking about - as if you'd winter in Scotland if you'd a flat in Spain  >doh<

I know it depends on the person's personality, I have people who are on both sides - one person is scared to spend their money and has built up substantial capital living in property - now getting support to spend this wisely and for their own betterment.   Another we have just found out has £125K in capital but routinely phones for food vouchers and wants another benefit check to make sure their award (without the capital) is correct.  It was only when they asked the WRO to open a letter from the capital holder (finance company) that they were told they should have declared this - oh I know but its my money not yours. >steam<
Older people often storm away in a huff if you ask them what they have in savings or income as its no ones business but theirs how much income they have.   OK so I then tell them that based on their age the state says they need this much, if they have health problems and get PIP/DLA/AA then their "applicable amount" is this figure.  I then explain the capital rules and tell them to go and work out if they think they should be due means tested benefits but if they apply the state will ask them for details of all their income.


I also have people who exist on their pension of £80 and refuse to claim pension credit because "someone else needs it more than me"  they then complain loudly that they are being shafted but wont claim when helped to.  It took me 6 years to wear one person down and now the back money came through I got a panicked message as they had too much money in the bank >crying<  >doh<

As for the Social Fund - that was carved up and passed to your local council so its up to the residents in each council to hold their elected members to account how that money is used.  Edinburgh said it wouldn't use it for crisis grants but the local folk made so much noise complaining to the councillors that the policy was changed.

[Fiz]

Thankfully my money arrived in two payments. I gave the first to the builder who's creating the patio and then the second payment arrived so I've never been in possession of the limit above which you should declare. I've received one quote for artificial grass for the rest of the garden which is more than I have. A second artificial grass specialist came today to measure up and quote and in talking to him I'm sure he's the better person for the job, both in knowledge and preventing anything becoming a problem in years to come. His quote has yet to arrive but is more likely to be more than the first. I did mention the possibility of paying 3/4 in cash then setting up a standing order every 28 days to pay the balance off that way. He said that can be a problem with businesses and not family firms but he'd put my proposition to them.

I've lived here eight and a half years and never had a usable garden. The thought of having one makes me cry! At the end of the day it will be the landscape gardeners choice as to whether I can pay the balance in installments that will decide whether or not it'll happen.