Author Topic: Living with clinical depression  (Read 4523 times)

Jockice

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KizzyKazaer

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #1 on: 06 Nov 2012 07:47PM »
Interesting how he 'stacks up the arguments against' suicide.  One of my own steadfast reasons over the years for not taking that final step (and I suspect this is probably the case for many others) was that I didn't want to devastate the lives of those who loved me.  Even if I did feel somewhat unloveable and totally 'surplus to requirements'..

Also, I lost a very dear friend this way - we were both nineteen at the time and she was the first best mate I'd had since primary school.  It's the most painful bereavement I have yet experienced.

I remain convinced that when severely depressed people contemplate suicide, it's not actually death they are seeking.  They just want the pain to stop.

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #2 on: 06 Nov 2012 07:53PM »
...gosh, what a depressing post that was!!  >erm<

He didn't mention any treatment, I noticed, psychological or pharmaceutical... An untreated depression is more likely to drag on and become worse;  compared with as recent times as the 1980s, there's so much more choice of talking therapies and anti-depressants these days, so nobody has to just 'put up with it'!

NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #3 on: 06 Nov 2012 08:21PM »
"One of my own steadfast reasons over the years for not taking that final step (and I suspect this is probably the case for many others) was that I didn't want to devastate the lives of those who loved me.  Even if I did feel somewhat unloveable and totally 'surplus to requirements'."

Friends and family are what's kept me clinging on on these years.

The author of the article speaks like someone who has never been in any form of remission, even though he can identify things in life he finds enjoyable.

Minniehaha

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #4 on: 06 Nov 2012 09:21PM »
'Yet, here I am, not only alive but typing an essay. Clearly, something is stopping me from taking the necessary action. Clearly part of me wants or needs to live, and clearly that part is consistently able to talk the rest of me around. How? I make no claims to the universality of my experience, but I feel there must be something useful to be learned.'

'The case for suicide, then, is looking weaker by the second. It's at this point that, almost against my will, actual, positive reasons to live begin to occur to me. At first, relatively trivial ones: I want to know how the U.S. election will turn out, for example. I'm curious about the future generally. There are things about living I can admit enjoying – eating, reading, writing, sex (solo or otherwise). Then deeper ones: I want to be a father one day. I want to see how far my writing can get me. I want to move to America. I want a life.'

As someone who's lived with varying degress of clinical depression for almost forty years, those two paragraphs really stood out for me.  Clearly, the reason that this guy is able to carry on living is this ...

He still has hope

Fiz

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #5 on: 06 Nov 2012 09:37PM »
Mostly my dd keeps me going, it's only when I am at my very lowest and not coping with every day living that the feelings of failure and 'she's better off without me' takes over. When she gets angry and frustrated at my inability to do things that I am most at risk.

The problem I find with depression is everyone experiences it differently and people who have had it or have it think they know how others experience it or what they should be doing about it or what they can cope with whereas in reality everyone is different. The danger of an article like that then is that he or the reader may assume things for others that are not correct.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #6 on: 07 Nov 2012 12:12AM »
I have found that over the years, my depression has changed.  That being so, it makes perfect sense to me that different people will have different experiences of it and that it will be difficult for some to connect with some others' experiences of it.

My reasons for not killing myself come down to three:-

1.  I've tried a lot of different ways and given a lot of thought to it and not found a way that doesn't run the risk of leaving me worse off.  Without wishing to offend anyone here with physical impairments or brain damage, a severe mental illness won't be the easier to recover from if you add a smashed spine from jumping off a bridge or brain damage from incomplete strangulation to the mix.

2. My father.  It's unbecoming but I resent this quite a bit.  Looking after my father gets in the way of many things.  Just as I don't feel able to pick up the phone and say "sorry but I've had enough of looking after you, goodbye", so I don't feel able to write that message "sorry, I know you need ever increasing care as dementia tightens it's grip on you, but I'm not hanging around to help".  What I'll do when he dies is anybody's guess but in the meantime, staying around for him is a starting point.

3. Some days I do want to live.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

devine63

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #7 on: 07 Nov 2012 01:13AM »
Interesting thread.   I attended some mental health training the other day and learned something that was new to me:   I they described the population as divided into 4 groups: 

1.   people with known mh issues  who are currently low on well-being (that is prone to MH issues and currently ill and receiving treatment)
2.   people with known mh issues who are currently high on well being (prone to mh issues but currently not ill, receiving treatment if appropriate)

3.   People with no recorded mh issues who are currently high on well-being (that is not prone to mh and not ill)
4.   People with no recorded mh issues who are currently low on well-being (that is not prone to mh but currently ill and not receiving treatment because they are not diagnosed as having mh issues)

Guess which group have the highest suicide rate? 

It's not the group 1s (known mh + ill group) as you might expect (though they do, of course, have a moderately high rate)
The people most likely to suicide are the group 4s - no diagnosis but currently low well being (essentially that means ill).   

Many many people who kill themselves have never been diagnosed with a mental health condition.  However many of them will have seen their doctor in the recent past - usually about a relatively minor physical problem (researchers think the person goes intending to talk about mental health and then fails to do so and talks about a smaller problem instead).   My former colleague Dr. Elizabeth King (University of Southampton Psychiatry Department) published years of research on this.

regards, Deb






Fizzbw

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #8 on: 07 Nov 2012 02:53AM »
I used to think of it a lot, in fact I gave myself a 5 year limit. After that I was allowed to think of it. For me it's all because of physical pain. Seeing it unending into the future is soul destroying for me. My life has been so different, so much less than I wanted.

But now that that 5 years has passed I'm actually finding hope and thoughts of a future. It's almost as if I've been freed somehow.

I don't know how solid that is, I almost had a terrible time tonight as my dad was in a bad car accident, thankfully he's bruised and battered but mostly ok. It could have been so very much worse. We are talking 3 fire engines, 3 ambulances and lots of police.  I don't know if I have the strength to cope with a tragedy. Having said that in a lot of ways I thrive on emergencies, it's sort of the only time I feel capable and "well" but the payback is vicious.

I had a premonition about it as well, but that's just freaky shit ;)

Fizzbw x


NeuralgicNeurotic

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #9 on: 07 Nov 2012 06:55AM »
Fizzbw >hugs<

I'm glad your father is relatively unscathed.

Joy2u

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #10 on: 07 Nov 2012 05:39PM »
I`m pleased too that your father is ok Fizz.

This subject of suicide is interesting to me as two years ago my niece committed suicide.

She was 38 and going through a divorce.  She left 3 young children, thankfully on that day, they were with their father- but then perhaps if the children were home, she wouldn`t have done it?
My niece had just been to her local shop, the shopkeeper remembers her going in and said that she was chatting and laughing. She went home, charged her phone, put some washing in the machine, went into the garage and hanged herself!!

After reading Devine`s post above, I`d say my niece was definitely in group 4- it could have been written to describe her.

She didn`t leave a note and of course everything she was `fighting` ( for want of a better word) for in the divorce went to her almost ex husband. The children, the house, the car!
We, her family know that she wouldn`t have left her children for anything and still struggle to wonder what happened?
We can only think she had some kind of a brain storm- why charge her phone if she intended to do this?

Has anyone else known anyone who did this? I`d be interested in any opinions, since this I have viewed MH very seriously.

Hurtyback

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #11 on: 07 Nov 2012 05:43PM »
Fizz  >hugs< , I am so glad to hear that your father was not badly hurt.
 
I have suffered from suicidal ideation in the past. What has stopped me is the devastation that I know, from experience, it causes those left behind (especially the person who finds the remains). Thankfully, I am generally mentally well for most of the time so these episodes are infrequent and relatively sort lived.

Fiz

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #12 on: 07 Nov 2012 06:05PM »
Joy, I suspect the suicidal plans were there for some time, but that the action was momentary iykwim.

seegee

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #13 on: 07 Nov 2012 06:21PM »
I find it a bit weird (and rather irritating) that many mental health professionals now talk about "mental health issues", then shorten it to "mental health" instead of "mental illness". 
Someone with mental health is surely a well person (at least psychologically) in the same way that anyone with "physical health" rather than "...illness" is well.
I'm quite OK with being described as mentally ill when that's true; is this change coming from patients or professionals? 
"He has mental health" just sounds silly to me. 
I am currently mentally well, but I do have a recurring mental illness (and recurring mental health when I'm not ill? >whistle<).

I have known people who were suicides; one was the 4th group of no known MI, one had recently started treatment (which is a high-risk time, as when treatment begins to work sometimes motivation increases before the suicidal thoughts are overtaken by others), one probably wasn't in treatment but low on well-being & took an overdose of pills belonging to another family member.   
Oddly, none of those people were ones I knew when working as a mental health nurse. 
I have known patients die, but from physical illness or accident (not on the MH ward, you will be glad to read!). 

Jockice

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Re: Living with clinical depression
« Reply #14 on: 07 Nov 2012 07:36PM »
"Many many people who kill themselves have never been diagnosed with a mental health condition."


My best mate from school's younger brother killed himself a few years ago totally unexpectedly. And I always thought he was the one who was better at coping. Their mum died of cancer just after we'd left school and my mate went into a long-lasting decline ending up as a jobless alcoholic still living with his dad and drinking the days away. We never totally lost touch (and still occasionally see each other nowadays, even though we're now in our mid-40s) but there were periods where I'd distance myself from him because he was such a mess and I knew I couldn't help him.

His brother meanwhile had a full-time job, a steady girlfriend, their own house and a young son. He used to drink too much too, but not to anywhere near the same extent. He seemed to have it made until he obviously decided he'd had enough. You never can tell what's going on in someone's mind.

After hearing the news I had a flashback to their mum's funeral. My mate was crying his eyes out...while his brother stood there looking like he was waiting for a bus. He had obviously been holding back the pain until it got too much.