Author Topic: The daft aspects of isolating  (Read 909 times)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #15 on: 27 Aug 2021 03:57PM »
Regarding flu, the scientists mightn't know what all this year's variants are, but not everyone stayed home last year, and of those that did, there were those that were in group settings where there were clusters of cases.  Flu bugs went round some places of work as they always do and in other places where people congregate.  So there will still be some variants that can be included in this year's flu jab.

I don't understand the objection to having two different vaccines together, but if you feel uncomfortable about it, given that flu and covid vaccines are currently given separately, I don't see it as very difficult to have them separately.  (I want to call covid vaccines sars-cov-2 vaccines because I think covid in a general sense, but I know perfectly well it won't be long before my brain adapts.)  If you usually get them via your GP and they for some reason want you to have both together, what about getting one of them earlier elsewhere, e.g. a pharmacy?  Or is that less of an option where you are? 

As I sit here, I realise I'm pretty spoilt where I am in terms of access to things.  A couple of days ago I had a routine scan and was offered three different locations.  I popped into a supermarket yesterday and was offered a lateral flow test pack as I walked in, and also asked if I'd got anyone living with me I wanted them for.  I can get a flu jab from several local pharmacies and there's more than one place I can get my covid vaccine. 

As for the going back two or three times a year, if you mean for top-ups, I can see that that could be annoying both for those trying to fit it in around other things in their lives, and for those trying to administer them all.  On the other hand, lots of people out there go for regular appointments with a doctor or nurse for various blood tests and/or jabs more than once a year, so it can become a habit that seems less intrusive over time.  I get used to various tests at different times during the year, although I was discombobulated this year when my annual 'be grilled by the GP' session arrived in the form of an unexpected phone call when I was asleep.  (No, the time wasn't unreasonable, my sleep pattern is.)  Fortunately he's got a distinctive voice and is very switched on to patients having a knee jerk "Is this a scam call?" mental reaction.

There are so many complex issues for us to take as we weigh up the options, aren't there?
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #16 on: 27 Aug 2021 07:52PM »
Regarding flu, the scientists mightn't know what all this year's variants are, but not everyone stayed home last year, and of those that did, there were those that were in group settings where there were clusters of cases.  Flu bugs went round some places of work as they always do and in other places where people congregate.  So there will still be some variants that can be included in this year's flu jab.

I don't understand the objection to having two different vaccines together, but if you feel uncomfortable about it, given that flu and covid vaccines are currently given separately, I don't see it as very difficult to have them separately.  (I want to call covid vaccines sars-cov-2 vaccines because I think covid in a general sense, but I know perfectly well it won't be long before my brain adapts.)  If you usually get them via your GP and they for some reason want you to have both together, what about getting one of them earlier elsewhere, e.g. a pharmacy?  Or is that less of an option where you are? 

As I sit here, I realise I'm pretty spoilt where I am in terms of access to things.  A couple of days ago I had a routine scan and was offered three different locations.  I popped into a supermarket yesterday and was offered a lateral flow test pack as I walked in, and also asked if I'd got anyone living with me I wanted them for.  I can get a flu jab from several local pharmacies and there's more than one place I can get my covid vaccine. 

As for the going back two or three times a year, if you mean for top-ups, I can see that that could be annoying both for those trying to fit it in around other things in their lives, and for those trying to administer them all.  On the other hand, lots of people out there go for regular appointments with a doctor or nurse for various blood tests and/or jabs more than once a year, so it can become a habit that seems less intrusive over time.  I get used to various tests at different times during the year, although I was discombobulated this year when my annual 'be grilled by the GP' session arrived in the form of an unexpected phone call when I was asleep.  (No, the time wasn't unreasonable, my sleep pattern is.)  Fortunately he's got a distinctive voice and is very switched on to patients having a knee jerk "Is this a scam call?" mental reaction.

There are so many complex issues for us to take as we weigh up the options, aren't there?


According to the welsh updates today they aren't ruling out restrictions again in 3 weeks as infection rates have soared.  I don't want 2 jabs at the same time, it hasn't been tested as safe yet.  I will have one at a time 'maybe' I need my GP to explain the issues properly and not just tote the state line, he will be getting the 3rd degree from me.  Unfortunately and unlike yourself the NHS here including GP's is practically inaccessible still, you cannot drop into the surgery or the Hospital, they are closed to patients here except for dire emergencies.  Dentists an 8-month wait maybe more etc. Minor operations years.


There is so much misinformation, just because some things are OK in one area is no guide to it being the same anywhere else, it is a postcode lottery and then some currently.  The lockdowns started over 18 months ago in the NHS, they are still in virtual lockdown and we are getting dire warnings by the medical staff of a dual epidemic of the Flu and Covid again.


I don't think there was enough exposure to the usual flu this year because of the lockdown.  They are asking people to support many vulnerable here who are still afraid to leave their homes. Such people are getting scant empathy from annoying others who tell them to get a grip etc.   The government response is 'Covid is over'. Erm... not!

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #17 on: 27 Aug 2021 08:24PM »
Yes, you've confirmed what I was guiltily beginning to suspect part way through my last post - I'm seeing things too strongly through the lens of the area in which I live.   

As for the way lockdowns have been devised and implemented, it's been crazy.  Half the time people haven't been clear on what they should or shouldn't do, and the rules have been inconsistent.  I found it annoying when many shops had to be closed that in many cases it seemed unfair, because supermarkets could stay open because they sold food, but then sell the stuff that other shops that weren't allowed to stay open would have been selling. 

On one level, you could say that's good if people are going in fewer shops, but on another level, it crams people into fewer shops, thus in some places making it harder to socially distance.

I have long supposed that many politicians haven't taken into account local differences.  Unlike us, who may find out because we chat and are interested, politicians are supposed to make sure they get properly briefed by advisers who should in turn be consulting with those who have the relevant info.

As for not enough exposure to flu, I'd thought you meant there would be a problem formulating this year's flu jab, but do you mean not enough exposure as in not enough immunity from those who'd get immunity that way, making things more dangerous for others?  If so, I can see the logic of your argument.

I know we're all learning as we go along with this pandemic, but you raise issues that prompt me to reflect that even a pessimist like me may have underestimated how many more problems we'll be up against this winter than I'd considered to thanks to the way it's been handled.

But then we have a government that has the notion that essential business is about keeping pubs open, not about making sure people have basics like food, and personal physical & mental support.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #18 on: 28 Aug 2021 08:30AM »
The flu jabs (unless the system changed in the last five years) run on a three year cycle. As in, there are many strains of flu and there are three different flu jabs created each protecting against a different set of various strains of flu. No flu jab protects against them all. They rotate the jabs so the same jab is given three yearly, hope that makes sense.


So last year's jab would have covered a group of flu strains and this year's will cover a different group of flu strains
 We all still had our flu jabs although the vulnerable didn't mix with others and wouldn't have had the same amount of exposure to actual live flu carried by others. But given this year's jab is set to cover a different group of flu viruses anyway I wouldn't be too worried about their being an larger than normal amount of vulnerable people getting flu. Maybe more than a normal year but I am not expecting the numbers to be spectacular.


I'm unsure how I feel about getting repeated Covid vaccines. For me it's because I am feeling so low that a way out leaving no angry family sounds rather enticing. If I do continue having vaccines it would purely be to protect the people that I come into contact with, rather than me.


Ote Wales sound wise thinking of a further Lockdown. My local area case numbers are shocking.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #19 on: 28 Aug 2021 11:23AM »
I'm going to come up with an argument on the way out thing, because it's something I've also thought of.  My argument against not avoiding covid-19 would be long covid.  Ok, so with the adrenal issues you've got, you're exhausted anyway, but long covid?  Nope, avoid that one. 

That being said, protecting others also works for me as a motivator.  Though there's a selfish aspect to it for me - who wants to feel guilty? 

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #20 on: 30 Aug 2021 11:37AM »
I'm going to come up with an argument on the way out thing, because it's something I've also thought of.  My argument against not avoiding covid-19 would be long covid.  Ok, so with the adrenal issues you've got, you're exhausted anyway, but long covid?  Nope, avoid that one. 

That being said, protecting others also works for me as a motivator.  Though there's a selfish aspect to it for me - who wants to feel guilty?


If I am selfish I live on the basis of protecting the people I love rather than anyone else.  That is not to say I put anyone else at risk I don't. I social distance avoid crowds wear a mask do the handwashing, had the jabs etc, but I do feel undermined when I see restrictions lifted and I am virtually the only one still doing it.  That means despite any efforts I make, others pose a risk to me, making me less confident in venturing out to areas that are the new 'norm', because the new norm appears to be responsible for many 1,000s of new infections a day and people are still dying.


It has undermined my confidence that despite everything I do it won't make any difference except make a hermit of me and mine because everyone else is still a risk to me. Scotland and Ireland, as well as Wales, have huge increases in Covid infection and this has polarised people's responses to caution, if we are nervous or concerned are told to get a grip, we have had jabs, stop being negative, they fear another lockdown but he evidences suggest they are inevitable unless common sense prevails, its a pandemic and lethal, more so to vulnerable people.


Do I cast my mask to the 4 winds and just go with it?  Now they tell me 2 jabs isn't enough I need 2 more, a booster and a flu jab as well.  Hardly inspiring more confidence is it?  I think it was better when we didn't know what was going on, too much information out there, too many warnings , and too much confusion.  They just say if the hospitals fill up again THEN worry.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #21 on: 03 Sep 2021 01:25PM »
I don't know why I didn't reply to this before, because you've really hit the nail on the head.

Having said that, I find it difficult on a personal moral basis to condemn others because I don't know each individual, yet inside I seethe.  E.g. I catch a bus.  If it's one with quite a few unmasked people, it's a fair bet that most are not exempt.  (Our bus company still requires masks for non-exempt passengers.)  I want to scowl at them but make an effort not to because how do I know who's exempt.  But also, they've been given such rubbish, inconsistent info, that it's hard to scorn the ones that genuinely believe that they don't  need to.  Which leaves the selfish wotsits I can't glower at because I can't identify them.

I can't remember whether I've mentioned it, but I went recently on a day out with a local community group.  We were mostly in large, airy rooms (hangars/sheds with huge open doors).  Nevertheless, when I got home I seriously guilt-tripped.

You see, they'd said masks not required, and when I got there, others weren't wearing them, and we were probably all double-jabbed, so I didn't wear mine.  With hindsight, I think if the community magazine had said something like "You don't have to wear a mask, but if you feel ok wearing one, please do" I'd have worn one.

I felt ashamed at the fact that  my clumsy desire to fit in had affected me that way.  As I type this, I think "Don't feel ashamed, get active.  If there's another such outing, suggest that to the group leaders."

As local exercise and dance groups re-open, my main consideration has, as mentioned elsethread, been as to whether they're actually good activities in good locations.  No more putting up with rubbish instructors or waiting out in the rain for the doors to open.

The one group I do want to stick with, that I would miss, is re-starting.  I may have missed a class.  But it's dancing.  I know the leader was, pre-pandemic, as obsessed as I was with using alcohol hand gel, so I'm guessing that the group won't be doing what I'll call 'huggy, clingy' dances.  There are dances that you can do like line dancing in grid formation, reels where you weave in and out without touching, and circle dances where you don't need to hold hands because you're repeatedly letting go anyway.  (If you have a small circle, you can get a bit close even then, but a large circle would be ok.)

But I know someone else that goes to that group, who has an attitude of "Why are people so bothered?  We're all going to die anyway." A bit of me suspects they've reached a point in life at which they're hoping they will.

For me, dying would be one thing, although being in a tangled mess with my religious beliefs, I'm anxious about what, if anything, happens after, but long covid terrifies me, as do various other complications like strokes etc.

So when you write "It has undermined my confidence that despite everything I do it won't make any difference except make a hermit of me and mine because everyone else is still a risk to me." whilst a bit of me originally reacted with "Oh come on, become a hermit?!" it was soon followed by "Er, um, well I am managing to go out for some shopping, and I have caught a bus out and back on at least, erm, five or six occasions over the last year.  No, I'm wrong, it's more like seven or eight.  Well, I'm not a total hermit.  Not quite."

I have some shopping I want to do.  The trouble is that I've been having trouble finding what I want and the places left to try can be rather crowded. 

I don't know what the answer is.  Gosh, days like today I wish I'd got a full hazmat suit or similar, but that wouldn't be the done thing to wear.  I can see why people buy so much online. 

Socially distanced wave as we try not to hermit-ify ourselves too much whilst trying to stay safe.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)