Author Topic: The daft aspects of isolating  (Read 745 times)

Sunny Clouds

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The daft aspects of isolating
« on: 03 Aug 2021 04:09PM »
Earlier today, I was 'verbally pinged' by a neighbour.  I'd popped round yesterday for something and she'd invited me in for a while.  She's now been told by someone close to her that they've tested positive.

Well, I can't complain about isolating.  I've no job to go to, and although I've just re-ordered meds, I've at least two weeks worth left, so I can just phone the pharmacy and ask them to hold onto them.  I'm a prepper so I've tinned/packet food in the house and by coincidence, yesterday I went shopping for fresh food and picked up a packet of lateral flow tests.

I don't actually get much exercise, and if I want fresh air, I've got a garden.  If I were to break 'quarantine' and go to a local shop, it would be for biscuits that I don't need and am trying to give up. 

So I've no excuse to go anywhere.

Yet I feel penned in.  Expletive ridiculous.

I've a gardener and that will be a saga, no doubt.  I'm absolutely certain he'd think it twaddle if I said not to come round.  We wouldn't need to come round, and he could come in the back gate so we wouldn't need to meet.

So I have two concerns.  Firstly (and frankly my bigger concern) would be that people might think I'm not taking care.

The other concern is the cup of coffee and his biscuits which I leave out for him in the outhouse.  I can sanitise my hands before touching the kettle or the teabag, but what if I breathe over the mug and spoon?  Aargh.  His answer would probably be not to worry about it, but I would worry.  Aha - could I get an uncoviddy neighbour to bring him a cuppa?

I wonder how soon I'm due to pick up a neighbour's meds.  Could I offer to pay the gardener to pick up her meds and mine instead of doing my garden, thus getting rid of my angst?  Or maybe to do someone else's garden instead of mine this week?  I wonder who I know that could do with some help.

Meanwhile, my big difficulty is how to avoid guilt-tripping about feeling niggly over being 'trapped' when I'm nothing of the sort, and when people without the luxury of an internet link, a telephone, and a garden self-isolate for months without whinging.

Get a grip, Sunny.  Oh, and this isn't an excuse to 'self isolate' from your mop, your vacuum cleaner, your pile of paperwork that needs filing, or your iron and ironing board!
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #1 on: 03 Aug 2021 04:51PM »
My advice which you can take or leave, would be to let your gardener know that you are self isolating to be cautious, that they can let themselves in the side gate to do the garden and please on this one occassion could they bring their own refreshments as you'll have to stay inside while they are here. That relieves any gardener guilt. 

As for meds, you'll just have to let the person know who you normally collect for that you are unable to this week as you are self isolating. If you need meds yourself, is there anyone you could ask to pick yours up for you and leave them on the doorstep?

The important thing is that this situation is not your fault and you cannot take on guilt that isn't yours to take, that's called "false guilt". It's not your responsibility to solve the problems of the people you normally help either, because this is a situation you didn't create. 

I realise it's hard and so easy to feel that you are letting people down but by protecting others while you self isolate and allow other potential volunteers to step forward temporarily you are helping others feel better about themselves and you're doing all that you can to keep everyone safe. 

It goes without saying that I hope your fleeting indirect contact comes to nothing and within a few days you will know you're fine. Hugs.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #2 on: 03 Aug 2021 06:24PM »
Thanks, Fiz, that's really helpful.

I'm alright for my meds because I normally order when I've a couple of weeks worth left, so it's just a question of letting the pharmacy know.  Getting the gardener to pick them up was because he doesn't like being given paid time off.  He's a near neighbour who's been helping me for years. 

I didn't reply to you straight away because I phoned and he's agreed to do what you've suggested, i.e. come via the side gate and bring his own refreshments.

As for the other neighbour's meds, I can't remember when I last picked them up.  I'll call the local contact that asks me to collect them for her and say how long I'll be isolating for.  

Thanks for un-guilt-tripping me.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #3 on: 04 Aug 2021 03:03PM »
PS - I didn't tell him it wasn't me that realised all I had to do was to tell him I was isolating and to let himself in and bring his own refreshments.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #4 on: 05 Aug 2021 09:22AM »
It's very easy to spot "false guilt" in others in situations not of their making but the drive "not to let others down" is so strong that it's easy to miss in ourselves  :f_hug:

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #5 on: 05 Aug 2021 03:33PM »
Your explanation of false guilt is having an impact on how I feel about something else in my life, or rather someone else.  I have probably mentioned elsethread difficulties I am having with a relative. 

I was brought up to think in terms of 'women look after men, men look after women'.  In the army, that worked fine, men and women each using their respective strengths in a team.

However, that sense that I am responsible for looking after others, got distorted even beyond the domestic then army-type use your respective strengths, and became a sense that it was my responsibility to sort out other people's problems, pick up the pieces after others.  It left me wide open to exploitation in paid work and voluntary work and wrecked my career.

I was afraid that after Dad died, I might end up feeling I should go and look after this relative if they found themselves needing looking after.  I have been gradually coming to terms firstly with a sense that they are a selfish wotsit, then with the realisation that insofar as they show themselves to me they're a nasty piece of work. 

And your explanation of false guilt came at the perfect time.  I don't have to feel guilty about at last putting myself first in a family context.

Thank you.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #6 on: 06 Aug 2021 06:09AM »
Sounds like a win Sunny, and also placing healthy boundaries too.

On the edge

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #7 on: 25 Aug 2021 11:55AM »
Being deaf, isolating hasn't been that much of an issue surprisingly, it's more our norm anyway.  I talk to others who are still asking is it safe to go out now?  There is a hardcore of people who think wearing masks, taking vaccines, and worried that despite government statements, the media is still telling them it is not safe, you must wear a mask, the vaccines AREN't as effective after 5 months, and infections are rocketing again, are scaremongering themselves. 


In my area there are 500 infections weekly on average.  That is an NHS fact. But this tends to mean you will get targeted for taking any notice of these things by others fearful lockdowns will result again.  There is no common message and confusion, which means a lot of vulnerable still are and still isolated, they don't know who is right.  The deaf club (If warnings are vaguely accurate), has resumed 'normality, i.e. no masks, social distancing gone, etc..  The desire to meet up has overridden the dangers of so doing.


Having a deaf-blind member 'spoken' to by others without any consideration to the issues of infection were there for anyone to see, they completely forgot touching someone else without using gels or wearing masks, as we all know deaf-blind communication is the ultimate 'hands on' approach.  I think the disabled are put at risk anyway, it looks like survival of the fittest at times.  Herd immunity doesn't help the vulnerable.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2021 11:57AM by On the edge »

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #8 on: 25 Aug 2021 12:50PM »
I'm going to be annoying, but only with the first half of what I'm about to say, I believe.

Actually, herd immunity does help the vulnerable...

...in its traditional, established sense, not how it's now being used.

Herd immunity as understood until Cummings and his mates played around with it was exactly what protected the vulnerable.  When most of the herd, in this case, most of the group of humans, has immunity to a disease, then they have a drastically reduced likelihood of passing the disease onto those unable to develop immunity.

Then with the development of vaccines, it became possible to create herd immunity through vaccinating as many of the herd as possible.  We did that with TB, smallpox, measles etc.  So in its usual sense before the politicians messed around with it, vaccination what was used to create herd immunity to protect the vulnerable without waiting for a load of infections to wipe out lots of the herd. 

But Cummings and his mates decided that herd immunity had to be acquired via infection not vaccination, and the mainstream media followed suit with their use of the word, thus leaving us with a gap in English terminology that I feel angry about.

So your usage of the term is correct modern usage but frustrating for those of us deprived of an essential word to help people to realise that vaccines are a key part of our weaponry to protect the vulnerable.

I'm glad you appreciate the importance of protecting one another, OtE.  I'm really enjoying debating with you, even where we both have quite entrenched views so I'd rather you didn't get coviddy-dedded.   (It's ok, that won't end up in the dictionary, it's too naff.)
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #9 on: 25 Aug 2021 08:24PM »
Herd immunity probably only works with the fittest.  That was the point made really.  They had the ultimate 'herd immunity' attempt when the Spanish flu erupted 1918. 500m contracted it. no vaccine and 50m died. Some people have a natural immunity it isn't known how this happens.  We are told the usual and annual flu has actually killed far more than covid ever did despite a jab every year and still does and we may not have increased immunity from that because we were isolated last year. 


I'm no doom monger but worried.  I'm a bit concerned at the open house approach now having just read both my jabs are already less effective than 6 months ago.  I can only assume it is because the vaccine was not developed to counter the delta strain and the original version mutated while development was going on. We were caught with our pants down really, we should have isolated the UK, like New Zealand did.  Instead, Boris invited Indian politicians to London, 4 of whom brought the delta version with them.


I fully expect a lockdown before Xmas again so stocking up before the shelves empty again. Missing my Mac milkshakes and garlic lol Is that even news?

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #10 on: 25 Aug 2021 10:41PM »
Herd immunity in the traditional sense has been crucial for survival, but I think you're right, even where it's effective, you're still safer if you're fitter.

There's some indication that Spanish flu had been around for a while, mutating and mutating before it really took off.  A few years back, researchers traced it back to Kansas, but now there are indications it may go back further, as they trace back the mutations from a horse disease and maybe a bird disease.  Seriously.

However, if a disease can't happen to mutate the way it needs to before killing too many people, it dies itself.  A lucky parasite, be it a virus or a mite or a worm, manages not to kill its host.

Our immune systems vary so much.  I personally believe we're in a mess having first overloaded them with so many diseases from round the world as generations from around the world intermingled with people from other parts of the world, then tried to fight the consequent spread of disease by going the other way with hygiene, and still struggle to find an optimal balance.

I want to believe that the effects sars-cov-2 has on the immune system will trigger lots of positive research.  It's difficult because you know how negative I get, so partly I think that if budget holders and insurers can write off longer term problems as not 'real' or whatever, they will.  Yet people are networking online, including doctors and researchers who've had covid-19, especially those with long covid, who are exploring issues relating to the apparent links, for instance, between atopy (having allergies) and developing long covid, and also interacting with people in the ME/CFS community.  Exploring the interconnected aspects of our immune systems.  I daren't scroll back up to see how repetitive I'm probably being.

So many other things to be looked at.  But how long before links between higher death rates and conditions such as obesity and diabetes will be used to imply "It's their own fault they died" rather than triggering more research into the various immune-related factors involved in obesity.  For instance, there's the issue of how it can be the case that when two people eat the same number of calories, one may make and store loads of fat whilst the other doesn't.  There's been shown to be an influence of gut microbiome.  Whether you've got more firmicutes or more bacteroidites makes a difference to fat storage.

What on earth am I on about?  Well, if a link has been shown between gut bacteria and obesity in some people, then it's logical to ask whether there's any influence in terms of things like immune system, inflammation etc.  But will anyone research the link between not just obesity and severe covid-19, but the link between other things associated with obesity and severe covid-19?

I need to cling onto the belief that whilst a lot of politicians, insurers, investors etc. have their own interests to pursue (if it makes them money, they're interested, if it doesn't, they're not) there are people out there researching, developing, learning, sharing.

If you're looking at what to stock up on, and can afford it, I've found German government standard info on general prepping (i.e. their pre-pandemic info), which includes food as well as other stuff to help you cope with things like floods, storms etc. very good.  The Church of the Latter Day Saints publishes good info on which foods keep longest.

My embarassment with keeping spares is that I realised recently I hadn't been rotating properly.  I'm now using up some stocks of tinned food with 2020 best before dates, and a few items with 2019 dates.  Obviously you have to be very careful what you use that's that old.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #11 on: 26 Aug 2021 07:27PM »
Lol I got bored recently and decided to clear out the fridge and food cupboards, just as well, I found tins of fruit from 2005/2007, ham from  2015 that could have walked out on its own, perhaps I am immune from botulism who knows!  As regards vaccines, I was wondering at what point does our body start rejecting them? we have jabs for everything from birth to death really and for the mutations, not counting the ones we take for holidays abroad etc.  Someone must have done some survey that suggests we are reaching a limit to what the body can tolerate and build immunity to? Our bodies are wonderful things but are we asking too much of it?


200 years ago hardly anyone here would have reached 50.  In S Wales where they invented Iron and steel smelting, the average life span for workers in the foundry was 35, cholera was a norm as was smallpox.  I worked in Merthyr Tydfil alongside my works was an old graveyard and most in it died of smallpox and graves were filled 3 at a time in each one.  When it rained we could see the tops of coffins exposed.


Vaccination is wonderful but herd immunity was pretty non-extant there by all accounts. I'm sure the net is a wonderful thing when isolation is a norm as it was with /is with covid, but the issue is that the net is a TOOL, it is never a replacement for human contact, and people today are justifying their own isolation by stating the have a phone and so can contact and see via video anyone any time, why am I NOT buying that?


People need people, well I do anyway, isolation isn't fun and can never be justified simply because the issue really is, that most have lost confidence trying to make the effort.  If you still feel part of the world because you can phone, I'd think that is fine in moderation but not as a be-all, or end-all.  I've never actually done a selfie or put my child photos online, how many other sensible people are like me I wonder.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #12 on: 26 Aug 2021 11:04PM »
I agree with you that the internet isn't an adequate substitute for live contact.  At the same time, if used wisely, it can be a fantastic way of interacting, a much faster way than old fashioned letters and libraries.  Obviously, letters and libraries still have their place, it's a question of using the internet as an extra resource, not losing other resources.

That being said, so very many people have been isolated for so very long.  I don't mean the pandemic, I mean people stuck in their homes who can't get out and about physically or financially or who lack friends and family and don't know where to start with finding them.

I get lonely and I depend very heavily on my phone.  No, not a smartphone, a landline.  My hearing aids increase volume but reduce clarity, but my landline has just the right pitch balance for me.  I have friends I can communicate with so much better that way.  Actually, as I type that, something suddenly occurs to me - my landline is a dect phone - if I invite an old friend round into my garden, we could take two handsets out and chat on them to each other.  Less lipreading and guesswork for me!
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #13 on: 27 Aug 2021 08:32AM »
Unlike the TB vaccine, the Covid vaccines created to date don't offer lifelong protection. It's being discovered currently how many months immunity protection is gained from them
 I don't think it's to do with variants, the Pfizer appears as effective with all of them. They're starting off a new round of vaccinations in September starting with the most vulnerable so I assume group one. I was group four. No idea whether I still will be now that I am not considered to have adrenal insufficiency.


The current case numbers in my area is the highest that there has ever been which worries me. But hospitals are not overwhelmed so these cases are for the most part milder than they were.


Yes our country should have gone into Lockdown from other countries but that would have reduced income to the government and money is the most important issue to the cons don't you know.

On the edge

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Re: The daft aspects of isolating
« Reply #14 on: 27 Aug 2021 10:24AM »
Unlike the TB vaccine, the Covid vaccines created to date don't offer lifelong protection. It's being discovered currently how many months immunity protection is gained from them
 I don't think it's to do with variants, the Pfizer appears as effective with all of them. They're starting off a new round of vaccinations in September starting with the most vulnerable so I assume group one. I was group four. No idea whether I still will be now that I am not considered to have adrenal insufficiency.


The current case numbers in my area is the highest that there has ever been which worries me. But hospitals are not overwhelmed so these cases are for the most part milder than they were.


Yes our country should have gone into Lockdown from other countries but that would have reduced income to the government and money is the most important issue to the cons don't you know.


I gather only one vaccination has ever proven 100%?  The MMR is reported to be 99.7% effective but has its doubters from the autistic community.  The reality is vaccine developers and the state infer higher effectiveness than what is actual, because of the fear people will refuse them otherwise.  If any are near 85-95% then that is good enough.  If we are picky then we focus on the 5% for whom it failed and disastrously and resent being acceptable 'collateral damage'.


We demand all sorts of cures and protection now as a right and a norm, we cannot really know to what extent our bodies will cope with it all until something happens.  Pfizer is the best of the lot really, they had to move fast with research and development and did well, but Covid moved faster like the flu, and mutates rapidly so always one step or two ahead of us playing catch up.


The next round of jabs I am uncertain about will we have the same again when they know 6 months its effectiveness wanes?  The Covid jab was developed for a strain that wasn't Delta, which is now the current dominant strain.  Then they suggest double jabs of the Covid and Flu together.  Personally, I would refuse a double jab and want more assurances the Covid top-up is more effective and longer-lasting.


We cannot keep going back 2 or 3 times a year.  Covid and Flu continue to change, and the vaccines aren't.  We don't know about the usual flu because we weren't exposed to it last year, this means updating that vaccine is experimental and based on outdated data.  Exposure is also very high now because restrictions are less.  Like most, I am dreading winter and the NHS is already in its own lockdown regardless what everyone else is doing.


Reading online I just see concerns and those making them under relentless attack as whiners or worse, by others who live in dread of lockdowns again, yes we need people in work and the taxes,  I just wonder who is going to pay the real price for it.  A month ago I was fairly confident in the protection 2 jabs gave me, now I am less confident and uncertain.