Author Topic: Chocolate deficiency crisis!  (Read 1114 times)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #15 on: 15 Jan 2022 09:05PM »
Armed with my negative pcr test result, I headed for the shops.  I now have an excess chocolate cookie in stomach crisis.

I've been trying to excuse it.  I have no excuse whatsoever.

I think my big problem came when I started buying packets of biscuits/cookies instead of a single pastry.  A single pain au chocolat isn't  healthy but is an awful lot better than a whole packet of biscuits/cookies.

I don't need a pcr test for pigging-out greediness.  I know I'm positive for it.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #16 on: 16 Jan 2022 04:24AM »
 :f_hug:


I'm very pleased your PCR was negative sunny. My gut feeling was it would be negative. The cough is no longer a prominent feature of the current strains especially initially, plus I know so many people struck down with lousy colds with all their symptoms. I'm sure it's loss of immunity due to our limited contact with people. I still haven't kicked my cold into touch though only 2 days into the course of antibiotics I decided I was going to live after all.


It's still early days but I am trying to focus on losing weight for health reasons and for the first time I am looking at my emotional reasons for wanting to eat certain foods. For me having mulled it over I crave certain tastes when I am struggling emotionally and have little pleasure in anything else. Therefore to think "mm this tastes nice" is a drive to feel pleasure and to relieve the distress of feeling so naff. But of course that pleasure of food is momentary and doesn't last so the urge is to eat more of what tastes nice which is why I tend not to eat just one. So I am attempting to "notice the craving" "acknowledge the motive" "realise it's an emotional drive" and not to respond to it and instead think what else might distract me or give me some enjoyment.


It's early days as we're not yet half way through January but I am having some success at not responding to emotional cravings. We're all different and will have different reasons for cravings and if I wasn't very overweight and needing to get weight off my spine I would happily eat what I fancy. But my health is suffering and I am not happy this size so I need to work at my response to food.


I am rubbish at being able to resist foods so tend not to have anything in the house that I have trouble resisting. I'm using the nutracheck app to track my daily calories and am finding that helpful.


But there's nothing wrong with biscuits if food or weight isn't a problem. I'm more of a savoury person so the things I crave tend to be crisps and bread rolls with cheese and butter! But haven't had any this year, or sourdough crackers with cheese, my other craving. I'm trying to eat keto to lose weight at the moment, it seems to be a successful method for people on steroids.




Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #17 on: 16 Jan 2022 02:10PM »
I lost well over two stone last year but now I've stalled.


You mention not having anything in the house you'd have trouble resisting.  What went wrong for me yesterday was bypassing that. 

I bought too many in the shop.  In the past, I've dealt with that by going to different shops to reset my snack/treat buying habit, which isn't very difficult in an urban area, but yesterday I felt tired.

I've also managed in the past to kick a food treat habit for a while by telling myself it's ok to spend the same on a non-food silly treat.

Then I started eating before I got home.  Daft.  Mind you, it involves juggling and ritual.  Reach residential road.  Sanitise hands, take off hearing aids and mask.  Put aids in specific pocket, hold mask by straps.  Take packet out of bag, zip up bag, put on shoulder.  Open top of packet.   Hold packet in left hand, juggle little sanitiser bottle with right hand to sanitise fingers.  Use ring & little fingers to put sanitiser bottle in specific pocket.  Use index finger & thumb to eat biscuit.  Middle finger acts as 'barrier' between sanitised fingers and ones sanitised but which last touched the outside of the bottle.

This is all annoying for two reasons.  Firstly, if I establish a ritual, it's hard to break it.  Secondly, I'd realised that my big get-home-and-eat thing (which could involve biscuits or anything) was triggered by that crash I get a bit after coming home and that a mug of coffee, half drunk before eating and sipped whilst eating, drastically curbed my appetite.  I believe that wanting sugar is generated by genuine sugar depletion, particularly with brain use from emotional exhaustion, so tackling the brain & body signals with caffeine is better than discipline.

As I'm typing all this, I realise that I have to find a way of conceptualising eating on the way home (which I only started to do late last year) as 'dirty'.  Or maybe 'embarassing'.  I'm thinking as I type - maybe 'dangerous because it might distract me so I might trip up or bump into someone'. 

Also, I need to rearrange my kitchen.  The other time I get triggered to eat biscuits is usually late evening or awake in night.  If I've any biscuits or similar, they mustn't be in line of sight where I first look.  But there need to be alternative munchables to lure me first.  I did have a phase of that.  Bowls of prepared snacks in line of sight of kitchen door.  Crunchy salad stuff and some nuts and seeds.

As for other foods instead of biscuits, my favourite I relapsed back into again and again over the years was toast and either hummus or cheese.  The trouble was I'd get into a habit of having both each day, two slices of toast each time.  That's actually a lot of calories, although for years I pretended to myself that it wasn't.  Finally, I looked at a hummus tub, then a bread bag. 

Obviously calories per slice depends on size and sort of bread, so let's average at 200 for two slices.  Then half a tub of hummus to go with it, which is 250 calories.  Total 450 calories.

Over time, the amount of cheese varied, but would be enough, I reckon, to bring me up easily to the same 450 calories.

So those two 'meals' added up to 900 calories, with no veg or fruit etc.  But mentally they were 'meals' so I excused myself eating 'snacks' in between.

Oh, how we kid ourselves.  I say me not meaning me plus another Oucher, I mean it as a general statement.  If it weren't pretty common, shops wouldn't sell things the way they do.  You buy a little packet or tub of something and they tell you calories per portion, then you realise if you look closely that what you're seeing as one item and therefore one portion, they are selling as three or four portions.

And I'd be lying if I said I didn't lie to myself about these things when I'm feeling greedy.

That being said, I've no tolerance for a certain sort of person I encounter elsewhere that I'll characterise as 'person who gets their dopamine kick out of sneering at others, including fat-shaming, calling people greedy for wanting more sugar or processed food, whilst being greedy for ever more 'sneering' dopamine kicks'.

Whereas here we can say how it is, swap ideas, whether it's about food or anything else, and play with ideas for moving forward.

Ok, my next tasks:-

1. Conceptualise eating on way home as 'dirty' and 'hazardous' and 'embarassing'.
2. Re-organise kitchen a little to put the healthier stuff more in line of sight (what happened to my fruit and salad bowls?)
3. Think of different 'treats' to buy.  For the same money, I could buy, dunno, little children's toys?  Small plants?  Magazines?
4. Keep my fingers crossed that Fiz can keep noticing and reducing her response to cravings/motives or whatever.

Last thought (for this post only, sorry) - the last time I had a big clear out of clutter, I conceptualised it as 'hoarding in my bin'.  I'm now going to go and play with ideas of how not eating biscuits or other sugary and/or highly-processed foods can satisfy the same urge as eating them.  Seriously.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #18 on: 16 Jan 2022 06:46PM »
Good thought process sunny and thank you for number 4, I need all the crossed fingers I can get.


If you like chocolate have you seen Pure Heavenly chocolate? They have a website and you can buy their chocolate bars on Amazon. Vegan, palm oil free and hardly any sugar. The 30g bars only have 126 calories in them. They actually got a full house of offers on Dragons den but turned them down after the show because the Dragon's t&c's wanted them to turn away from their ethical aims which are important to the family.


I'm probably helped by being brought up to believe eating outside while walking or talking is "common" - that was my (posh) Gran's firm belief and my mother didn't challenge those. I can't even remember eating an ice cream from a van! Though maybe I did and can't remember.


I've lost 4.5 lbs this year so far. I'd love to lose 2 stone or more this year. I'm in so much pain today, spine wise, I am sure it would help losing weight. As well as feeling better about myself.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #19 on: 16 Jan 2022 07:04PM »
I didn't deliberately lose weight, I just changed what I ate and it went well until in the run up to Christmas I went back on biscuits etc.

I'm not familiar with Pure Heavenly chocolate.  My usual chocolate before all this was a variety of brands but usually 90% or higher chocolate, maybe even 100%.  (Cocoa with no added sugar.)  If I went in a supermarket that didn't do 90% I settled for 85%.  (I'd usually, pre-pandemic, rotate between about 7 different major supermarket chains/brands plus a range of other shops, usually on the way to & from various activities and meetings.)

I've just tried looking at the Pure Heavenly site.  My brain can't cope with all those moving images and there's no way of making them stop still.  I tried clicking on particular bars but couldn't find any ingredients.  I got a glimpse of one that said it was forty something percent cocoa.  I've no idea what the rest is.

That's why for me this is all so surreal.  Normally, what I mentally register as biscuits & cakes don't attract me.  It's hidden high-carb and hidden sugar stuff I usually pig out on, like loads of bananas - well, they're fruit, aren't they?  So what if the poster on my kitchen wall says they're full of sugar?  Oops, caught myself out lying to myself about my sugar intake again. But surely those oatcakes are just sort of oaty crispbreads?  Oh, they've got oodles of calories in that tiny little packet?  Oh dear.

You've prompted me, though, to investigate what else is available as alternatives.  Mind you, I tried some biscuits that were sold as 40% less sugar, bought packets about three times, then looked on the ingredients list.  40% less is still a lot if 100% of sugar in 'normal' biscuits they've chosen to compare with is ridiculous, and not much consolation if I eat the whole packet.

Yes, that's my biggest problem.  The 'eat the whole packet' thing.  But as I say, you've prompted me to do more looking.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #20 on: 16 Jan 2022 07:51PM »
It might be an idea to differentiate between sugars. While 100 calories is always 100 calories whatever it consists of, not all sugars are equal. Some are low GI and don't spike blood sugar, followed by a "crash" and some like refined sugar are not only addictive but spike blood sugar's causing the liver to trigger insulin production to combat what the body sees as a damaging harmful product. While I do limit my fructose intake due to calorie control, I try not to eat any refined sugar at all. People who regularly eat refined sugar are likely to be addicted and stopping eating any will trigger withdrawal and cravings but this eases and most people stop craving for refined sugar after 2 weeks, almost everybody is clear of it after 3 weeks. Truvia is a calorie free alternative.


The sugar in Bananas isn't refined, not only that but it is slowly released into the blood stream giving energy over hours rather than minutes hence why it's eaten by tennis players during matches and marathon runners. The potassium in bananas is great too for health.


So maybe don't worry about sugar unless it's refined. Pure Heavenly is 2% sugar and is the only refined sugar I eat at home. When I mentioned pure Heavenly I was thinking it might be a healthier alternative to your chocolate biscuits rather than exchanging it for any chocolate, your 90% cocoa chocolate is fairly healthy with very low sugar so doesn't need swapping.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #21 on: 16 Jan 2022 08:24PM »
My big problem with the chocolate biscuits is that I buy them because they're symbolic, then when I start eating them, I lack the discipline to stop and eat the whole packet.  It's not the sugar that makes me buy them or want them, that's the xanthines and the taste of the chocolate and the texture.  Very difficult.

On the banana front, I did read (I can't remember where, but it was a source I trusted referring to research - I'm not asking others to believe it) that if you eat them when they're still quite green, your body finds it harder to get at the sugar.

I remember quite a set-to in a nursing home where Dad was towards the end of his life.  They objected to his eating his Lindt chocolate, saying it was because he was borderline diabetic, and told me to buy 'diabetic' chocolate from Boots.  I looked at it - it had higher levels of sugar than Dad's 90%, but not much cocoa so you'd need a lot for a xanthinne kick.

Meanwhile, they were giving him sugary mousse.  I looked at the label.  I told the manager he could eat three yummy chocolatey chunks of Lindt 90% every day for a week for just one pot of that revolting goo.

They started giving him cereal with lots of milk.  He didn't usually eat cereal or drink more than very small amounts of milk and they weren't giving him lactase tablets so he got diarrhoea.  (My gut's not happy either if I'm not very careful about what sort of cheese I buy.)  I pointed out acerbically that milk contains galactose, which is a mixture of lactose and glucose, so again loads and loads of glucose.  I said there was probably more glucose in a day's milk than relatives had in their emergency glucose tablets.

The whole thing is a nightmare of interwoven brain & body desires, urges etc.

I keep sugar in the house for visitors.  I have no urge whatsoever to put it in my coffee or cocoa (which I make with water).

I claim no consistency in this whatsoever.  I do know, though, that with biscuits & cake, it's the texture and the sense of a 'treat' or 'something you buy to comfort yourself' that tempts me and then the carefully-contrived, highly-processed mouthfeel plus the sense that I'm comforting myself with a 'treat' that makes me eat the rest, plus an obsession with 'complete set'. 

I stress I don't say this by way of excuse, although I also say I don't think I have more bad habits than most people, just that we each have different ones.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #22 on: 17 Jan 2022 12:00AM »
This has really set me thinking.

I wandered in and out of the kitchen this evening wanting something but not sure what.  I had a Linda McCartney pie.  I had some nuts.  I kept opening cupboard doors and the fridge door.  What did I want?

I thought I wanted maybe biscuits, but did I really?

I've some cup a soup I bought on a friend's recommendation but that doesn't actually satisfy me.

I ate half a ryvita.  Did it make me feel better?  Well, sort of but not really.  I thought of things like oatcakes - I stopped buying those when I realised what they'd actually got in them.

Then I remembered I'd got instant porridge.  Not eaten for ages.  It's probably a couple of years or more since I bought it but it's still ok to eat.  Did I want sweetener?  I've got some stevia.  I've got the sugar I keep for visitors but didn't actually want it.

I made some porridge and ate it without sweetener.  The lack of sugar didn't spoil the satisfaction feeling.  I thought how I don't usually put sugar in my cocoa.  That doesn't spoil it.

So it's not the sugar per se, it's the sort of things that have sugar in them.  I hadn't realised that.  On the other hand, I do think that carbs attract me.  But how much is texture?  More experimentation needed.

Thank you, Fiz, for throwing out thoughts/ideas on this.

Meanwhile, something I meant to respond to - savoury - I used to like mayonnaise on stuff. Well, I still do, it's just that if I buy it I absolutely slather what I'm eating with it.  I got to the point where I'd also have it, spread thicker and thicker, on toast, ryvita etc.  Then I started eating it by the spoonful out of the jar.

I reckon that a lot of that was the texture, the mouthfeel.  But you've prompted me to wonder whether something mainly acidic in taste but without all the other stuff in commercial mayonnaise would tempt me.  I like my battered fish coated in loads of vinegar. 

An attempt that went wrong - I tried buying tartare sauce in the hopes that I'd just want it on fish in moderate quantity.  Nope, I started slathering it thickly on ryvita etc.  I didn't reach spoon from jar stage before stopping buying it.

Trying to find food that feels satisfying but  not too moreish isn't easy, is it?

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

ditchdwellers

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #23 on: 17 Jan 2022 12:14AM »
I try making up a batch of sugar free jelly with some fruit in put into small POTs in an attempt to satisfy my sweet cravings.  It doesn't always work! Other than that, I just stick to having Rich Tea biscuits at home and it's impossible to eat a whole packet of those in one sitting. Hobnobs will disappear instantly in front of me!

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #24 on: 17 Jan 2022 04:13AM »
I struggle to believe that there's any sort of biscuit I couldn't eat a whole packet of in one sitting.  It has to be a whole tin to defeat me.

That being said, I wonder whether there is actually a biscuit like that.  Hmm, worth thinkng about.

I had some cup a soup about an hour ago (it's the middle of the night) and that worked as a nighttime snack.  I coupled it with tackling my 'lie awake in bed' problem, where I tried handwriting draft letters that I can type up later. 

I came down now to delete some puzzles from my computer.  Better self-discipline at night.

Tomorrow, maybe a call to my GP to request some sleeping tablets.

(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Fiz

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #25 on: 17 Jan 2022 06:55AM »
There's a theory that has credence IMO is that breast milk is biologically designed to satiate and comfort and is two thirds fat and a third sugar ish and that we spend the rest of our lives being comforted by foods that are two thirds fat and a third sugar ish, cakes, biscuits, etc


I'm comforted by taste but also crunching and chewing so soup does nothing for me. A bread roll with butter and cheese is a different matter!


It sounds like you were exploring cupboards for foods not because you were hungry but because you were bored or anxious?

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #26 on: 17 Jan 2022 02:42PM »
Not quite bored or anxious, more just sleepless and sort of "There's something missing", but it's on the same spectrum.

Usually, there's some sort of snack I'm in the habit of eating.  When I mess around with my diet, that sort of bewilders my brain.

Maybe a year and a half ago, whilst trying to put my finger on what the difference was between periods in my life when I've put on fat and periods when I've lost it, parking on one side issues like medication, the key difference is that those periods in my life when I've either lost fat or stayed steady, I had what I'll call a daily habit diet not a meal diet, but not a calorie-counted diet.

So then I'd wander into the kitchen vaguely thinking "What am I going to eat?" I'd look around.  "Have I eaten my such-and-such today?"

That makes it very difficult to plan a diet, and the best go I've had where I've deliberately lost weight was when I put loads of little dishes of snacky stuff on the counter each day.  E.g. some nuts & seeds, some veg chopped into single mouthful chunks, some fruit, probably still in its peel, some fish chopped etc.

Planning in terms of 'meals' would be unlikely to work because it's not how I've spent most of my life eating.  Much of my early adulthood was based round eat when I could, grabbing something in between activities.

So it's finding better 'snacks'. 

Actually, last year's weight loss was particularly, I believe, related to eating supermarket fake-salads.  Pasta + fish + token veg + sauce.  But one shop does one with actually a lot of salad.  They've probably decided it works out cheaper to put less fish and more lettuce.  I've noticed recently that there's less pasta and more carrot.  I reached the point of buying extra lettuce as well.  But it only works if they've got quite a few tubs in stock, because it's a bit of a trek so I want to stock up.

This is all also prompting thoughts on my part about differences between what I want to eat at different times of day.  I remembered last night how when I was a child, what we called a 'hot supper' was bread with salt & pepper.  (I.e. play on words, 'hot' implies cooked meal but is actually the pepper.)

Oh well, today's belated breakfast (at past midday because I didn't get to sleep until after five) was battered fish and coffee.

I don't feel hungry now.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

KizzyKazaer

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #27 on: 17 Jan 2022 04:22PM »
I have to severely ration my intake of Very Chocolatey selections such a M&S or Tescos do. They have a varied assortment with a thick coating. Highly addictive.  :f_gift:

Oh yes!  I normally only partake of those at Christmas...Dad and I can demolish a box between us and then we look at each other and say, "Shall we buy another box for the New Year?"  :f_biggrin:


Quote
My biggest problem is where I buy a packet and eat the whole lot in one go.

Have actually done that with ginger biscuits - not covered in chocolate.  Even though it was decades ago, I remember how horribly sick I felt and how it put me off ginger of any kind for years  :f_yikes:


You're better off with the dark chocolate, Sunny - if it's 85% cocoa it's apparently very good for mind as well as body, so I've read only recently... 

lankou

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #28 on: 18 Jan 2022 01:22PM »

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Chocolate deficiency crisis!
« Reply #29 on: 18 Jan 2022 02:18PM »
Oi, Lankou, stop making me drool! 

Actually, you've had an effect you probably didn't intend but I don't think you'll object to it.  You see, I like doing online jigsaws, including ones with pictures I get if I search for 'tea' 'coffee' 'kitchen' 'cafĂ©' etc.  Your picture looks like some of them.

So what?  Well, I wonder - and it's a long shot - whether focussing on appearance of what I eat would make a difference.  E.g. choccy biccies - would I eat fewer if I came up with a tray and a layout with lots of fancy stuff to make them the focus?  Yes, it's weird, but I wonder whether a little time spent in charity shops buying some fancy little bowls, plates, napkins or whatever and turning my food treat into a 'picture' would make me get less pleasure out of more chocolate or biscuits or cake or whatever.

After all, the chocolate is for me mainly a social symbol of treat/comfort anyway, plus a deeply-embedded sense that xanthines help, but even then, that's just symbolic.

Are you trying to kill off my chocolate addiction, mon ankou?
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)