Covid jab

[Fiz]

 


Apparently most of the people in hospital with Covid are young adults to middle aged who are unvaccinated l hope some reassurance for you DD is that none are in ICU currently here at least.


The most common symptoms in children is a temperature and diarrhoea but most children who get Covid don't have any symptoms at all thankfully.


Hoping that the baby in particular doesn't get it. I know as a parent and grandparent how worrying it is when close family are affected like this 

[Fiz]

How's your son and his family DD? Has he recovered now? Did the children get it?

[ditchdwellers]

Thank you for asking Fiz. Thankfully, they all seem pretty well.
My son still feels a little rundown and hopefully there won't be any long lasting effects. The baby had it too, only mildly, and was just grizzly for a few days. The others escaped unscathed!


I sent them up a goody bag full of books, activities and treats to help see them through isolation. I was careful to send it over by taxi, having warned the driver they had Covid. I asked him to ring the doorbell, leave the bag, and run away! He said it took him back to his childhood 

[Fiz]

That was wise advise DD. I found it quite emotionally traumatic when my son and family had Covid. Parking outside a house with all curtains closed, placing casseroles etc on the doorstep, knocking then standing well away felt eerie and surreal.


My youngest grandaughter almost certainly had Covid along with her family though they didn't test her. She had diarrhoea the classic childhood symptom and her 3yo sister had that and a temperature and both felt unwell. Glad they are over it. I guess as they got over it fine they haven't changed their minds about the vaccines?

[ditchdwellers]

Unfortunately not. They don't read papers or news websites, and I think they they get most of their information from social media or YouTube. I despair with them at times and we have have had many discussions with them over the years regarding their lack of awareness of current affairs. They don't even listen to the radio!


I don't think we'll ever change them. Maybe they will grow more socially and internationally aware as they get older, or maybe that's just me wishful thinking.


I'm sorry to hear your family were affected by Covid too. I hope there are no long lasting effects for any of them?

[Fiz]

No, thankfully the two children and their families who had Covid have all recovered fine. My daughter and her partner are frontline NHS workers so it was fairly inevitable they'd get it. My daughter's partner received his + test a couple of hours after having his first vaccine so was sent home from work. The symptoms started that evening. He'd had his weekly PCR earlier that day. His was like flu. My eldest son's partner had it the worst hence driving meals to them, she said she knew she'd get it badly as her immune system is rubbish but she hasn't been left with long Covid so they're all fine. The son in Wales and his wife have escaped it, their lockdowns were far stricter than ours. Local was defined as walking distance so that's how close to home you had to stay when exercising whereas here people were travelling a hundred miles to go for a walk because local means one thing to one person and another thing to someone else! I think Wales" restrictions were better than ours.

[Fiz]

I've just been reading about the fourth wave of Covid and the restrictions some European countries have placed on the unvaccinated. Many won't allow the unvaccinated in any social venues such as shops, cafés, cinemas etc or on public transport. One European country that has an NHS style health service has started implementing charges for health care for patients admitted with Covid and all of the following implications and further health problems for the unvaccinated. According to a yougov poll 72% of UK citizens support the same actions here. That's a high number.

[Sunny Clouds]

One European country that has an NHS style health service has started implementing charges for health care for patients admitted with Covid

I thought it wouldn't be long before other countries started following Singapore's lead in this, but I hadn't expected any EU countries to be so quick off the mark. 

I feel conflicted because my knee-jerk emotional reaction is that it seems fair, but it took only moments for my brain to scream "Thin end of the wedge!" Today, fees for covid care if you're unvaccinated, tomorrow, what?  Fees for STD treatment if you're not celibate?  Fees for treatment following a road traffic accident if it is shown that you weren't wearing a seatbelt or something?

I suppose the compromise would be to give priority to vaccinated people, but then think of whether that should apply to everyone.  If not, which exemptions?  Here, we've all seen the irrational design and irrational implementation of health categorisation for social security purposes.

Oh well, if applied here, it would keep the government happy as it finishes off privatising the NHS, setting a precedent for reducing supposedly universal healthcare (and yes, I know there are already vast unfairnesses) to limits that make for popular soundbites and save costs.

I feel about this the way I do about the 'two child rule' for benefits.  On the surface, it sounds reasonable.  If you can't afford children, don't have them.  In reality, that takes effect as punishing the children for what is deemed to be wrong behaviour by their parents.  It also punishes people who make the 'wrong' decisions even where they may have what we'd consider reasonable excuses if we were in their shoes, but are encouraged to think of as unreasonable when we're not.

[Fiz]

My sister and niece both have Covid currently. I think my niece is doing okay with it but my sister is pretty poorly. Hopefully milder than it would have been if they weren't vaccinated.

[Fiz]

Since writing that the rest of their family tested positive and they are all struggling with recovery to varying degrees. My sister finds it hard because she now has days when she feels a bit better and is able to cook or whatever and other days she is so fatigued that making a drink is a struggle. Thankfully, as they are all wiped with it, they have found a dog walker for their dog.


I was in the chemist today and the lady ahead of me bought a hoard of cold and flu relief type items for a whole family who are quite poorly and incapacitated by Covid. The whole family are all full vaccinated and had their boosters but have all caught Covid anyway. I know so many fully vaccinated people who have Covid right now I am wondering if the protection it gives is far less than the vaccine manufacturers state.

[Sunny Clouds]

I thought these vaccines were supposed to be like other vaccines - teach your body to recognise a virus by giving it dead virus or damaged virus or imitation virus, so that your body can fight that virus as effectively as if it had previously been infected by it, meaning that some people won't get symptoms, some will get milder symptoms than otherwise, and some immune systems still won't be able to fight it off. 

Are these new vaccines supposed to be better than other sorts of vaccines?  In what way?  I hadn't picked up on any statements by the manufacturers about this but then maybe I missed them because I wasn't expecting there to be any.  I think most of what I've read has been focussing on the claimed reduction in need for intensive care by vaccinated people who become infected.

[Fiz]

Apparently the Asda-Vinegar and another vaccine I can't remember the name of introduce an extremely mild form of the virus to build up antibodies. The Pfizer and Moderna apparently alter the structure of the cell so as to resist the virus entering it and this is a new innovative method of vaccines. There's a third type, Johnson and Johnson being one but I am not read up on the methodology behind them so they all work differently.


From what I am hearing, far more people have or are recovering very slowly from the virus having had it badly than at any stage before in the pandemic. When I say have it badly, I don't mean they need hospital but it's like full blown nasty flu when they're in bed "thinking they're dying" as in the phrase used rather than they actually think they're dying. Early in the pandemic it seemed there were large numbers seriously ill and dying in hospitals, some people were very unwell with it at home and a lot had it mildly and just felt pretty rough but could function. I'm not hearing of anyone currently that just feels pretty rough and can function any more when they get it, even fit healthy people are bedridden. My bil has only seen a GP once since his 18th birthday and has never been off work sick but was in bed feeling extremely ill with it a couple of weeks ago and he's fully vaccinated. It worries me personally. Not that I think I would die or need hospital if I caught it but I don't have a support network, live alone and know no one to help with the dog and have no idea how I would manage if I was very ill at home.


I think the Guardian writer is right, we all need to be more careful and cautious and I think we should be thinking of a new vaccine because the current ones appear ineffective with the current variants. I do get the argument we'll always need new vaccines due to evolving viruses but still think it's necessary as I think we're looking at annual vaccinations for the foreseeable. Given the amount of currently very unwell people, I really hope that it doesn't ignite into very seriously ill and needing hospital again. I still think most people in hospital with Covid are the unvaccinated so the vaccines must reduce the severity of the virus to an extent even now but not as much as it did previously.


My dd has stated she will accept annual vaccinations only from now on with this booster being it now for the next year but apparently the NHS are only kicking out employees who haven't had the initial 2 vaccines from April, they're not insisting NHS workers have to have boosters even though it's known the vaccines effectiveness wanes so I don't think they'll lose many employees in April when it becomes mandatory in the NHS.

[Sunny Clouds]

That's a lot of food for thought.

I agree we're probably going to have to be thinking of something like the annual flu vaccine.  I don't know how willing people will be to take it up.  The take up, I think, of flu jabs amongst older people has been quite good in the past, although I've never looked at the figures, so that is just my perception.  But there's been so much relentless anti-vax stuff that I think there's a very widespread resistance to vaccination even amongst people who, a couple of years ago, wouldn't have thought twice about having one.

I take on board what you say about bedridden, but if those are people that previously would have been on ventilators, then that to me still seems like an improvement if one's thinking in terms of survival.

On the other hand, is what such people are going through getting the attention it needs in terms of awareness and support?  As I type this, I'm not convinced it is.

That being said, something that's bugged me throughout this relates to long covid.  It became apparent quite early in the pandemic and groups of people with it were getting together to exchange information, research it, then liaise with people with other sorts of conditions involving long-term fatigue and/or post-viral conditions.  That seemed to be progressing then went relatively quiet.

I'm afraid I'm cynical enough (and I hope I'm wrong) to think that except for a bit of aftercare for the most ill, a lot will find themselves in the same position as those with a range of other conditions, most notably ME/CFS, that are often put down to 'all in the mind' or even 'faking it'.  This is an important thing to do in any context where they can be expensive and, I believe, originates in America in terms of healthcare, and also has roots in a variety of countries, including ours, that have done the sort of things our governments have with sickness/disability benefits, e.g. Australia, Canada etc.

Tell people they're faking it, imagining it, exaggerating it and you can refuse to spend money on them

So I then turn back to 'very nasty flu at home' version of the virus.  Will that be adequately acknowledged and supported?

It doesn't help that it's known that there's a nastier version of the common cold going round, and also flu's back with the possibility of new mutations and under-vaccination.  How are people supposed to know which they've got, and if they do, get the right help?

Then add in all the nastiness of the benefits system which encourages people to 'man up' and go to work if they have a job and hey presto, more spreading.

Picking up on this

It worries me personally. Not that I think I would die or need hospital if I caught it but I don't have a support network, live alone and know no one to help with the dog and have no idea how I would manage if I was very ill at home.

I have a bit of a support network, but not much of one.  I worry about things even as simple as whether, if I was in hospital,  I'd be able to contact a neighbour to go round and sort out the heating etc., and to sort out anti-burglar stuff like making sure my light timers were on and my radio batteries replenished.  (I reckon my radio's a bigger burglar deterrent than my alarm.)

Having had postviral fatigue accepted and recognised twice and then later had it again and had it dismissed as 'retarded depression', I see the difference it makes what labels people stick on you. 

I'm lucky in one respect - where I live, there's a community network you can ask for help.  It also gets extended informally.  But I don't know how much I could rely on it or for how long.

I wonder whether those of us with chronic disabilities have a greater awareness than many (but far from all) others of the difficulties of dealing with debilitating conditions with inadequate support, which, added to our potentially increased vulnerability (depending on our underlying conditions) makes the thought of things like this very anxiety-inducing.

I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but whilst I wish you didn't feel the way you do, knowing you feel that way reminds me I'm not alone with some of my worries about it, which helps me a little. 

 

[ally]

The hope is seeing our family this year is fading fast.   More countries are closing their borders with the U.K.   we could go out there, and, be stuck there for months.   It wouldn’t be a hardship, as there’s hardly any covid cases out here.  However, I’d struggle to get the meds I need.  We’re at the stage of mulling things over, without any commitment.  Our family are pressuring us to take the plunge, and, go for it.  Since omicron, we’re back pedalling.  This morning, I’ve been feeling dizzy.  I’ve just taken my BP and it’s too low.   Any fall would mean a fracture due to my osteoporosis.  Growing older sucks.

[KizzyKazaer]

You're not wrong there, Ally (says a menopausal woman)  Do I read you right that you don't live in the UK or are your family based abroad?

I've just been reading about the fourth wave of Covid and the restrictions some European countries have placed on the unvaccinated. Many won't allow the unvaccinated in any social venues such as shops, cafés, cinemas etc or on public transport. One European country that has an NHS style health service has started implementing charges for health care for patients admitted with Covid and all of the following implications and further health problems for the unvaccinated. According to a yougov poll 72% of UK citizens support the same actions here. That's a high number.

For the 'thin end of the wedge' reason as Sunny said, I don't support charging the unvaccinated for healthcare, but I think the social venue restrictions aren't a bad idea as it will show the refuseniks that for choices there are consequences....which seems fair to me.