Author Topic: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)  (Read 1425 times)

Sunny Clouds

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BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« on: 07 Aug 2021 10:59AM »
Here we go, a thread for letting rip about the BBC and disability since OtE and I were, I think, at risk of diverting a different sort of thread.  It won't bother me if it goes off on a tangent about other media outlets.

My personal moans about BBC and disability -

1. Having drop down menus across the top of the screen for main topics, then disability hidden as a sub-topic under 'more'.  Why not either integrate disability stories into other topics such as news and have a combined one such as turning 'health' into 'wellbeing' for stories that don't fit 'news'?  If it comes to that, is new wheelchair technology 'disability' or 'science'?  I'd rather see it under the latter.

2. Those wretched BBC programmes that pop up in my Youtube recommendations "What not to say to people with..."  I think the very theme of it makes disabled people seem touchy and can inhibit conversation.  I'd rather someone dropped a clanger than avoided talking to me lest I took umbrage.

3. The increasing use by the BBC of background 'music' drowning out speech.  I appreciate that it seems to be fashionable on various news and documentary outlets I encounter on Youtube to do this, but that doesn't make it right. The answer if you complain is that you should use subtitles, but given that subtitles go over the screen image, they can block out important parts of what you're watching.  Why no option to have them running across the bottom of the screen under the video?  It's not like that would be difficult with modern technology.  

4. If you try to complain about BBC policies over these things, they tell you you can't raise general issues about policy, you have to complain about specific programmes. I think it will take legal action under equality law to stand a chance of changing it, and even then (showing my political bias) not very likely with those currently in power, aligned closely to a government that kicks disabled people at every opportunity.  (As it does others with disadvantages, be that social disadvantages or financial disadvantages or whatever.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

KizzyKazaer

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #1 on: 07 Aug 2021 05:00PM »
Quote
3. The increasing use by the BBC of background 'music' drowning out speech
Oh, how I detest this, and also actors mumbling so you have to rewind three times - and turn up the volume to the extent it might annoy the neighbours - just to catch what's been said... and I'm not even hard of hearing, so what it must be like for those who are :f_doh: Don't the sound engineers check this sort of stuff?

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #2 on: 07 Aug 2021 05:30PM »
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Don't the sound engineers check this sort of stuff?
I wondered this a while back about something different - call centre telephone music and pre-recorded messages.  What I concluded there maps onto this as well.


I think that the sort of people that do jobs that involve recording and approving stuff in a range of contexts including television programmes and other not-making-music recording/broadcasting probably have very good hearing and very good sound-discrimination.  If not, why do that job?

Further, they probably normally listen to what they record or edit or approve on very good equipment.

Then sadly, all too many don't seem to take on board that an awful lot of other people don't share their good hearing and good equipment.

I daresay a few don't care but my guess is that those are in a minority.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #3 on: 07 Aug 2021 07:52PM »
I'm laughing at myself.  I don't watch much BBC stuff these days but just after posting here earlier today, I went on Youtube and a short BBC video about chronic-condition influencers popped up and I watched it.

You guessed it, it had music over the voices.

It was also very poorly written and presented.  Further, reading the comments, I think they shot themselves in the foot. 

The basic premise was rather vague along the lines of some people with chronic conditions objecting to some sort of trend in chronically ill influencing that was being portrayed by the programme as in some way fake or leaping on a bandwagon.

But the comments below pointed out that two influencers whose sites they briefly showed on screen had been posting/influencing long before their conditions came up. 

So it was badly presented, badly argued, with badly chosen examples.  My gut feeling is that it will have alienated some viewers against what they may conceptualise as 'moaning anti-influencer disabled people'. 

Mentally I map my feelings about it onto my feelings about the 'What not to say to' series.  Probably doing more harm than good for disabled people.

That being said, I don't think the BBC is necessarily making a worse job of making programmes about disability issues than it is of making programmes about a lot of other issues, but I have to declare here my limited knowledge in that I watch very, very few BBC programmes these days.
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bulekingfisher

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #4 on: 07 Aug 2021 08:25PM »
Hello Kizzy Kizzy Kazaer

I fully understand your frustration at the BBC for trying to hide disability under gobbudly Gluck I think the only way to solve this problem is a SOCIAL REVOLUTION  like if every disabled person was to refuse to use/attend a day center as that would affect ambulance driver's + attendant all the OT's, physio therapist's, +the cleaner's + a whole lot of union members including the N.H.S staff then va lot of big organisation's including the BBC would have to come to the negation table to Coppermine with us

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #5 on: 07 Aug 2021 08:58PM »
My only concern about that approach would be that I don't think the unions have any real power any more.  Thatcher hit them hard and their power never really recovered.

I say that as someone who was a union rep at work and who grew up with a close relative who was senior in the trades union movement, who had a very strong influence on me.

That being so, I think that if disabled people abandoned day centres, the centres would simply be closed and the staff sacked.

So I think that for me, I'd like the principle but directed differently.  Maybe turn up somewhere like their MP's constituency office, or their local Conservative club, or other place where influential people hang out and declare that to be the new day centre?  Or better still, set up a big marquee outside the BBC headquarters and declare that to be the new London day centre for disabled people.

It hurt me writing that, reminding myself how powerless so many working people are these days.  But maybe there's hope for a better future if people work together and don't give up?
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

KizzyKazaer

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #6 on: 10 Aug 2021 05:03PM »
Quote
...set up a big marquee outside the BBC headquarters and declare that to be the new London day centre for disabled people.
:f_laugh: that sort of action would float Bule's boat :thumbsup:


Quote
It hurt me writing that, reminding myself how powerless so many working people are these days.  But maybe there's hope for a better future if people work together and don't give up?
Through this wretched Covid-19 pandemic, a lot of people have been doing a lot of kind things, so I think the potential is certainly there.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #7 on: 10 Aug 2021 06:50PM »
I'm not usually religious, but this last couple of days, I've been perking myself up by singing along to Pete Seeger singing 'God's counting on me'.  You don't have to be religious to buy into the song's message, and I don't think you need to be as left wing as I am and I think he was.  Extracts leaving out the repetitions and a verse about an oil spill.

[Chorus...When we look and we can see things are not what they should be God's counting on me, God's counting on you ...hoping we'll all pull through, me and you...]

It's time to turn things around, trickle up not trickle down...

Don't give up don't give in, workin' together we all can win....

There's big problems to be solved, let's get everyone involved...

When we sing with younger folks, we can never give up hope...
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #8 on: 05 Sep 2021 01:19AM »
I notice that the latest edition of Disability News Service has an article on the BBC's Disability and Lies documentary.

For those that haven't seen it, there's a Change petition to the BBC.  It's not so much a request as a statement, including

Quote
But I can assure you @bbcnews you’ve added fuel to our fire for why our advocacy is so important. To continue to tear down the ableism this world thrives on.
So thank you for being a prime example of ableism and why our community stands so strong together.
You attack one of us, you attack all of us.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #9 on: 05 Sep 2021 01:26AM »
Incidentally, a different aspect of BBC disability programming.  They did a series on BBC3 about "What not to say to..." featuring lots of different disabilities, differences, conditions etc.

It got under my skin big time.  I felt that the impression that could be left on a non-disabled viewer is that disabled people are touchy so you have to be very, very careful what you say to us, and that all disabled people with any given condition hold approximately the same views.

But then I was one of a number of people who bristled when, a few years back (not many, I just can't remember when), Bipolar UK published an article on its website stridently declaring "I'm not bipolar, I have bipolar!"  I looked on their forum and there was a bit of a set-to over it, but I stopped visiting the site after that because it had left me feeling too uncomfortable.  Just because they are the big, national bipolar group doesn't give them the right to tell us whether it's ok to say "I'm bipolar."  Heaven help me if I dare to tell their spokespeople that "I'm manic depressive."  Presumably that's a total no-no.

Sudden memory.  A wheelchair user pushing himself up a slight hill in a shopping area one Christmas.  I stuck my oar in and said he looked a bit weary and would he like a bit of a push for a few minutes.  He jumped at the chance, saying where he wanted to go, which wasn't far.   We chatted and agreed that so many people who'd like to help wouldn't because they'd had the idea pushed on them that disabled people are touchy about offers of help.

Flip side - when I used to use a white cane, I had so many lovely offers of help.  Never mind "What not to say to..."  E.g. someone waiting for lights to change getting out of his car and crossing the road on foot to ask if I'd like help to cross the road, or people spontaneously reading out a bus number to me.

So the BBC documentary petition is so much more to the point than my mere ranting on the topic of how the BBC portays disability, because it's a reminder to the likes of me to keep saying things to non-disabled people, and to keep rallying disabled people to speak out, whether their views agree with mine or differ.  Even if the petition doesn't change anything at the BBC, it rallies disabled people to speak up.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #10 on: 06 Sep 2021 11:23AM »
I don't watch the BBC much, to be honest, I gave up attending care in the community lectures years ago.  The currently disabled representation there is token, and offensive to my mind, they created some sort of 'Luvvie' set up since we were all kicked out.  I did watch 'Jerk' which I thought was brilliant disability viewing, but the BBC DON'T accept feedback or any view that is aligned to it, and you can get banned or blocked online for using any of the same rhetoric.


Every stupid cliche charities and mean-wells used was ripped apart on this show, it should be prime disability viewing.  Beats the hell out of pathetic charity and focus group awareness.  A disabled man NOT afraid to take the pee out of himself or his peers...  I suspect not getting any invite to the TV's 'Hero' awards though :)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #11 on: 06 Sep 2021 12:51PM »
I didn't ever see Jerk.  I shall be rummaging around online to read up about it now.

I like Channel 4's Last Leg.  You can agree or disagree with the politics (I generally do because I'm left of centre and a fair bit of their stuff is) but on the disability front they're not patronising.

I rarely watch the BBC on their site.  I find any video I access via their news pages keeps stopping.  I don't know why it won't work properly with my computer.  I used to watch stuff on iplayer but find the current version of that very, very difficult to use, so gave up unless I, rarely, find a link from elsewhere saying to watch something.

My problem with iplayer is that it's one of only two sites online that I'd want to use where it's got big pictures and as you scroll down, they change size and shape.  I can't realistically scroll with my cursor down the side of the screen because then I'm watching that as I adjust for unsteadiness.  So basically, I can't read what's on the screen.

I tried to find if they'd got a version that just stays put or with drop down menus and they said no.

But I do watch some BBC stuff on Youtube, albeit not much.

I largely gave up on radio, but that's not actually because I didn't want to listen, it's about losing my daily routine and not coping with mentally digesting stuff and having problem with my radios and sound quality.  I keep trying to get back into the Archers but can't mentally catch up with the stories.

I used to look at their news site regularly, but it's nowhere near as good as it was.  I'm not talking about the bias - we'd all disagree about precisely what their bias is because it's not simply right/left, it's more complex than that.

Also, because they got rid of various regional offices, the local stuff is mostly just a list of links to stories in other outlets.

That being said, some of those other outlets are better than the BBC at basics.  I find it shocking that it didn't take long in the pandemic to realise that BBC summaries of government guidance and rules was useless, but that Reach (Mirror, Express, local rags) was far better. 

I'm getting very worried here, OtE.  We've a reputation to maintain for disagreeing on everything and we're agreeing about a lot relating to the BBC! 
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #12 on: 07 Sep 2021 10:34AM »
It was bound to happen at some point lol  The BBC has to go in my view.  It's a bit like the lottery, the odds of finding anything valid or decent to watch is astronomical.  My post box (Usually filled to underflowing), was quite full of angst recently, yet more demands I save the planet, eat grass, be more kind, contribute to persecuted ass's in Malta, recognise every minority, ethincity, colour, and language spoken or written, whilst waging war on plastic etc.  I sent a torrent mail response to them all telling them I'm a bit cream-crackered currently trying to comply, and, can I save the planet next week instead?  All I got was a torrent back, full of claims I am ist, ism or phobic of some kind...  I'm seriously considering going Binary +5.


Apparently, some disagreed with me on lanyards and badges to plaster ourselves with, so those of us who have a disability that cannot be seen without a wheelchair, can get some sort of awareness going... I said,OK, we advertise the fact we have a hidden issue then what? Joe Public already under more pressure than we are, will go "Hey! you are deaf? Great!!" and then launch into full flow with BSL at me, I suggested that scenario was a bit unrealistic really, and I prefer SE anyway.


It's a bit like flashing doorbells for the deaf, OK I know someone is probably trying to sell me double-glazing but I won't have a clue what they are saying if I open the door anyway, I usually play my trump card and launch into my homemade language a cross between total gibberish and serbo-Croat instead, and they soon disappear.  The point being accessories are less than half the issue, ditto deaf dogs etc, apart from us having to pay the national debt to keep them in food and care, they tend to crap everywhere too, I'll give them a miss thanks.  Kids are easier to manage, and they don't shed fur everywhere or bark, OK mine did but.....


Rather than blame everyone and his assistance animal or carer, far better we made a bit more effort where we can instead.  I just tell people I haven't a clue what you are saying, you may have to write it down or speak Swahili etc, and that works for me near 100%.  I refuse to use the stat 'face me and speak as if I am a 3 yr old..' advice for obvious reasons.  Most 3/4 yr olds I know are well into social media and one just spent 4 days in the Australian bush on his own no problemo.


I think independently disabled, or deaf, Deaf, HoH, severely deaf, acquired deaf, Cultural deaf (call me MR DEAFIE!), or, 'I don't hear very well, in fact not at all really, I am blagging it',  areas, tend to be in conflict with established disabled norms.  But awareness, is all a game isn't it? laugh and the world laughs at you etc...


NB Is your censor checker on the blink?
« Last Edit: 07 Sep 2021 10:35AM by On the edge »

Sunny Clouds

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #13 on: 07 Sep 2021 01:20PM »
The awareness thing and labelling oneself is difficult.

I think the sunflower lanyards really came into their own in the pandemic when disabled people exempt masks wanted to fend off criticism, but I rather suspect (and have no proof) that quite a few of the sunflower lanyards worn where I am are worn by people who may not be exempt, and quite a few people who might benefit from some sort of official exemption badge, if such existed, don't see virtue in the sunflower lanyard to stop aggro.

That being said, a checkout assistant at a local supermarket wears one and seems to find it very helpful at getting customers to understand he has some difficulties/differences.  I don't pretend to know what underlies them, but they revolve around a sort of lack of interaction.  Seeing the lanyard seems to help customers to register that what they're not encountering is grumpiness or hostility or indifference.

So it's context.

I'll admit I've come close to wearing a 'deaf, please speak loudly' badge and these days it's probably at least once on each shopping trip that I'll take a hearing aid out and lift it up saying, with a grin that shows round my eyes, something like "I shan't be offended if you shout at me."

When my ataxia was bad, I used to go everywhere with a sign on my back and signs all round my trolley (used as mobility aid - better than any of my collection of different wheely walkers).  The difference they made was amazing.  People being so much more careful, and if I did get accidentally knocked over, people being so much more understanding.  Why should that be?  Well, I don't look like a 'fragile oldie', I don't have a walking stick, and I'm very adept at falling safely (i.e. crumpling softly) so before I started labelling myself, I had to put up with accusations of having faked it.  I'm not joking.  People shouting at me and about me, especially in shops, assuming I was trying it on to be able to sue someone.

So I think if you label yourself, it depends on things like where you are and what you're trying to achieve with the labelling. 

I find the issue of people labelling what they are in the way of what I'll call 'out and proud' is a question of context, and probably more relevant to youngsters when they're going through the demonstrate about everything phase (which actually I value).  I there are also contexts where people are being outed by others or recognised by others as belonging to a particular minority or disadvantaged group and turn it round by being overt about it so that people can't derive satisfaction from outing them.

A very difficult balance, to say when you're different when you want to, but not to feel obliged to.

Now to display my ignorance - what's a censor checker?

Oh, forgot, flashing doorbells - useless if people are going to ring your bell to talk, but useful if you're expecting a delivery of something.  I noticed 'visitors by appointment only' stickers on people's doors and got one myself.  I get very, very few unsolicited visits since I put that up.  I rather think, though, that the effectiveness of that sort of thing varies a lot. 

Something my parents had on their door for a while when there were too many door-to-door tradesmen was a sign that looked like it was institutional and said something like "All enquiries should be made to head office. Staff and residents are not able to agree to works being done on the property or items being purchased."  I.e. "This is some sort of small care home or supported housing, we don't need you to tarmac the drive/cut the trees/fix the roof, so bog off."

Anyway, I don't have a flashing doorbell here but did before.  Evidently I didn't find it too useful or I'd have one here, wouldn't I?
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Reply #14 on: 08 Sep 2021 10:24AM »
The awareness thing and labelling oneself is difficult.

I think the sunflower lanyards really came into their own in the pandemic when disabled people exempt masks wanted to fend off criticism, but I rather suspect (and have no proof) that quite a few of the sunflower lanyards worn where I am are worn by people who may not be exempt, and quite a few people who might benefit from some sort of official exemption badge, if such existed, don't see virtue in the sunflower lanyard to stop aggro.

That being said, a checkout assistant at a local supermarket wears one and seems to find it very helpful at getting customers to understand he has some difficulties/differences.  I don't pretend to know what underlies them, but they revolve around a sort of lack of interaction.  Seeing the lanyard seems to help customers to register that what they're not encountering is grumpiness or hostility or indifference.

So it's context.

I'll admit I've come close to wearing a 'deaf, please speak loudly' badge and these days it's probably at least once on each shopping trip that I'll take a hearing aid out and lift it up saying, with a grin that shows round my eyes, something like "I shan't be offended if you shout at me."

When my ataxia was bad, I used to go everywhere with a sign on my back and signs all round my trolley (used as mobility aid - better than any of my collection of different wheely walkers).  The difference they made was amazing.  People being so much more careful, and if I did get accidentally knocked over, people being so much more understanding.  Why should that be?  Well, I don't look like a 'fragile oldie', I don't have a walking stick, and I'm very adept at falling safely (i.e. crumpling softly) so before I started labelling myself, I had to put up with accusations of having faked it.  I'm not joking.  People shouting at me and about me, especially in shops, assuming I was trying it on to be able to sue someone.

So I think if you label yourself, it depends on things like where you are and what you're trying to achieve with the labelling. 

I find the issue of people labelling what they are in the way of what I'll call 'out and proud' is a question of context, and probably more relevant to youngsters when they're going through the demonstrate about everything phase (which actually I value).  I there are also contexts where people are being outed by others or recognised by others as belonging to a particular minority or disadvantaged group and turn it round by being overt about it so that people can't derive satisfaction from outing them.

A very difficult balance, to say when you're different when you want to, but not to feel obliged to.

Now to display my ignorance - what's a censor checker?

Oh, forgot, flashing doorbells - useless if people are going to ring your bell to talk, but useful if you're expecting a delivery of something.  I noticed 'visitors by appointment only' stickers on people's doors and got one myself.  I get very, very few unsolicited visits since I put that up.  I rather think, though, that the effectiveness of that sort of thing varies a lot. 

Something my parents had on their door for a while when there were too many door-to-door tradesmen was a sign that looked like it was institutional and said something like "All enquiries should be made to head office. Staff and residents are not able to agree to works being done on the property or items being purchased."  I.e. "This is some sort of small care home or supported housing, we don't need you to tarmac the drive/cut the trees/fix the roof, so bog off."

Anyway, I don't have a flashing doorbell here but did before.  Evidently I didn't find it too useful or I'd have one here, wouldn't I?


The censor checker was strange (Your spell checker), it locates an 'offensive' word in the middle of another word.  I typed 'G.R.A.S.S', and A.S.S. ( the animal), and it was viewed porn or something lol I will try C.O.C.K.A.T.O.O. and see why happens lol.


Yes 'labelling is some desperate attempt to buy into the ID issues some deaf people have or even hearing who acquire deafness have when they struggle to fit back in with what they knew.  'Born again deaf' etc probably the worst culprits. Initially, I used to nod sagely and then patronise via 'Whatever you think you are, why not?' thing, but it all got out of hand and got very silly and I lost patience with it as various campaigners skewed the whole thing and made some sort of cult of it.


Awareness of NEED and support was replaced with an awareness of ID, human rights took a fair hammering so needs to be re-written as a result so we can insert a clause with 'Common sense only please..' in it.  The mantra even replaced what formats of communication were THE essential component of being deaf, then it became discrimination officially recognised and backed up with the cultural ace card, placing image 'power' and communication support, in the hands of loony tune extremes in the deaf community, who by and large are the most able to profit by it.


THEY have access, have effective communication, have a wage telling everyone OTHERS are going without, but neglecting to show their part in hindering it all.  The deaf community works only in relative Isolation and if it can operate in parallel with the mainstream, so inclusion is a hot potato with them as this undermines the social system they have.  90% of the rows are about how they mismanage that problem.


Anyone suggesting bilingualism is a must, gets short shrift because they want deaf education to be monlingual aka sign only basically.  All this feeds back to poor inclusion and anger at a system that will never be designed to adopt BSL as a norm.  Having waged the virtual 'war' against the nonsense and impracticalities, not least there are no teachers of the deaf or signs to enable what they ask for, or, are even being trained to run a BSL curriculum it is sheer frustration really.


If you were a migrant e.g. you would be acutely aware of the need to learn a language of the country you enter, or you can't work effectively etc, the deaf sit it out demanding the system adapts to them, that is the difference.  Deaf say we have a disability, it is not the same..' but online they are at pains to suggest they don't have a disability, it's just hearing people being nasty to them.  Even myself looking at previous posts I made found I had typed 'Deaf and Disabled' so the promotion seems pretty effective that disabled are from Mars and Deaf from Venus etc.


I also think the disabled are no match for the deaf too.  Their unity is to be envied their expertise second to none in some communication areas, which just tends to reinforce the fact their messages are a bit 'too clever' and thought out, it works on the basis if you tell a lie often enough at some point it will be seen as truth.  The ideal behind it is that old chestnut control really.


I used to be really worried about it, but on the ground and at street level deaf youth are not buying into it.  The fact clubs and culture is relatively unsupported by young people means they are moving outwards and benefitting from that, the old deaf community was designed around a system where the deaf could not do that, inevitably it must fall to advances.  Progress, in short, deaf don't feel being isolated and restricted to only each other is what they want, nor do they want to tie themselves down to sign language but learn alternatives. They want and use bilingual options where they can.


The doorbell thing, the point was that knowing someone is there doesn't help me communicate to whoever is.  The point I also made about lanyards, badges and dogs etc.  Few are very effective communicators. It may tell people you have an issue it doesn't tell others what they need to do to help.  Again an 'ID' thing more than anything, at least the autism and diabetic bracelets give info as well, unless you forget to wear them lol  OK I wear a lanyard and need to lip-read, that takes no account most are rubbish lip-speakers.