Ouch Too

Forum => Welfare Rights => Topic started by: ditchdwellers on 01 Jul 2022 10:11AM

Title: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 01 Jul 2022 10:11AM
I've just received my PIP review form through the post, what joy, and it's so different from the usual PIP forms that I want to make sure that I understand how to complete it properly.


From what I've read, it seems that they are only interested in how or if my conditions have changed since my last assessment. Is this correct?


I have until July 22nd to return the form and have a copy of my last PIP form to refer to.


If anyone has any suggestions I would be immensely grateful.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 01 Jul 2022 11:23AM
A concept - see form filling linguistically and translate your needs from 'Claimantspeak' into 'Assessorspeak'.

If I limp, for me it's a sign of strength and adaptation, using the bits of me that work to compensate for the bits that don't.  For an assessor, what  matters is if limping is a sign of weakness, if bits of me don't work properly.

An example of a 'Do not'. 

Personally I have a bad habit I urge others not to copy.  When filling in forms for myself, I panic and defensively go into absurd detail, nitpicking, hair-splitting, technical terminology etc. to the point of panic-stricken counter-productiveness.  Don't, don't, don't!!!  E.g. assessor thought 'attentional memory problems' meant 'dementia' and asked my GP if I had dementia or 'mild cognitive impairment', i.e. euphemism for early dementia.   Which brings me to my second point...

An example of a 'Do'.  An example of 'translation' that has worked for me in a range of form-filling contexts when I use it, which I always have when filling in forms for others.  (I have raised seven figures in funding from grants this way.) 

I looked in despair at some grant forms.  I wanted funding for providing help for people in an inner city area.  I  needed to prove that the demographics of the people our charity helped mapped onto local demographics.  But the official statistical boundaries were based around ward & constituency & city boundaries, not around our catchment area, which overlapped statistical areas.  Well, we just accepted anyone that wanted & needed our help.  Stuff what colour, religion, nationality, social class or whatever they were.  If they needed extra help to use our services, we fixed it up for them.  But the people assessing applications didn't know that.

Hmm, what to do?  I got it.  Don't divide by 'ethnicity' or 'nationality' or 'religion'.  Divide by generations of immigration.  This generation, parents, or unknown/further back.  Bingo, it mapped on to the official statistics.  If that hadn't worked, I could have tried other methods.

So I didn't misrepresent anything, I found more appropriate way to represent the key information truthfully.  They wanted to know whether we provided services to the local people that needed them without prejudice or exclusion so I found a way to say yes, we did.

To summarise

'Translate' your 'independence needs' from Claimantspeak into Assessorspeak.  Not how you describe them, how they describe them.  Not how you conceptualise them, how they conceptualise them.  Not what you think should gain you points, what they think should gain you points.

You and other regular posters will know me well enough for me not to need to say this to you, but to be clear for any lurkers -  I am not saying misrepresent your needs or lie about them.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Monic1511 on 01 Jul 2022 07:55PM
Hi
What you need to be careful of is the decision they made last time before it went to tribunal (if that happened) is what they base their new decision on. So you need the award letter showing what points you were awarded last time.
For example 2 points for food preparation as needs an aid, yes I still need an aid but if you do things slower than last time put that down as it got worse.
If you had to go to tribunal to get additional points I would put in a copy of the tribunal decision notice, the new decision maker is not automatically given that information.


Good luck
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 02 Jul 2022 10:23AM
Sunny, I get your points completely. Thank you, as always for explaining it so well.


Monic, thankfully I have never had to go through an appeal or tribunal. Your suggestion about looking at the points I was awarded last time round for each activity is inspired. I would never have thought to do that so many thanks.


This next week I'm going to spend going to through my last application and copy hospital letters confirming how my conditions have declined and new ones arisen, plus hospital discharge notes, repeat prescription list etc for my supplementary evidence. There's no point adding a Care plan as I don't have a current one. Social Services seem to have conveniently forgotten about me and I haven't seen a social worker for a review in about five or six years! But they keep paying my Direct Payments so that's OK  :f_doh:
Actually, I don't mind too much been left to get on with things, but my Care Plan does need updating desperately. The problem lies with the lack of Social workers in my area and the Council was rated as needing significant improvement within the whole of Social Care a few years ago and there don't seem to any signs of things getting better yet.


Anyway, I'm digressing. Anything to keep me away from that bloody form  :f_laugh:
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 13 Jul 2022 11:59AM
I've finally started on the crazy PIP form!


There are a couple of questions where I need to answer 'no changes since completely last PIP application '.


Anyone any ideas how best I should phrase this? I'm unsure how I should answer it as I don't want to leave it blank or imply that I don't have any needs.


I'm following the advice given, thanks, and have a rough draft prepared minus these couple of questions I'm not sure what to answer with!
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Monic1511 on 13 Jul 2022 05:28PM
If you were awarded points for those questions put in the same info as last time, even if you just say I complete this task a lot slower than at my last review. The test is can you do the task repeatedly reliably and safely.
Good luck
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 13 Jul 2022 05:47PM
 :f_ta: Monic - I also received my review form a few days ago (just what I need to be thinking about during a heatwave  :f_doh: ) I think they must be playing catch-up after delaying re-assessments during the worst days of Covid....

So DD, I am with you in spirit - we'll be tackling 'that bloody form' together in a way!
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Monic1511 on 13 Jul 2022 08:40PM
At least you got the review form, a friend called to say her PIP is ending in 4 weeks and she hasn’t had a form yet, she phoned and was told she had to make a new claim.  :f_steam:  No she didn’t. She then got a statement of award saying her award was for an ongoing period followed by a PIP 2 saying it ends in 4 weeks.
I phoned them and got passed to the manager who called back after 3 hours to say that they’ll extend the award for 1 year as she’s been misadvised and a renewal will be sent out in December. The manager was brilliant but the system is screwed  :f_doh:
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 13 Jul 2022 10:04PM
Bloody ridiculous.

Sadly, I see no sign that any of the candidates to replace Johnson disagrees with 'small state' politics, so staff cuts and poor funding for systems will continue.  All we can do is to share our knowledge and experience to get people through it, whether it's those that do it formally, or those of us that just pass on tips and metaphorically hold people's hands.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 14 Jul 2022 09:49AM
As someone that currently needs that help, I can't begin to tell you I appreciate any and all advice and suggestions.


I really feel the benefit of having a place to come for support and to be able to share my frustrations too!



Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 14 Jul 2022 09:52AM
Kizzy  I'm sorry you got the Brown Envelope treatment as well. Good luck! 👍


And thank you again Monic for your wise words  :f_hug:
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunshine Meadows on 14 Jul 2022 03:50PM
 :big_hugs: :f_peacedove: :f_peacedove: :f_peacedove: :f_smiley: :biggrin:




The big grin is for when you get a good result from sending in your PIP renewals.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ally on 14 Jul 2022 10:15PM
Look at the Pipinfo site which gives you an idea on new case laws,  how to interpret them, and, general help.   Don’t forget to list aids and appliances.  Explain why you need them etc.  for example, an adjustable chair in the kitchen, because you can’t stand for any length Of time etc.
Can You do activities SAFELY in a manner unlikely  to cause  harm to the claimant. Or, to another person either during or after completion of the activity
REPEATEDLY. Means as often as the activity being assessed is reasonably requires to be completed and
IN A REASONABLE TIME PERIOD..  Meaning no more than twice as long as the maximum period a person without a physical or mental condition which limits that persons ability to carry out the activity in question would normally take to complete that activity
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 16 Jul 2022 09:03PM
I wasn't aware of the Pipinfo site - thank you, Ally  :thumbsup: (and thanks Sunshine for your positive vibes!)
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 26 Jul 2022 02:36PM
Finally sent off my PIP renewal today  :Cartwheel_by_livius:


I ended up asking for a two week extension which was much needed, and now I just need to wait for the verdict.


Thank you for all the help and advice. It helped immensely.


Kizzy,  how are you getting on with your form?
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 26 Jul 2022 07:29PM
Well done, DD  :thumbsup:   I also requested a two-week extension after the wretched heatwave effectively knocked out a few days and I was feeling anxious about the deadline.  Still picking away at the thing, 'eating the elephant one bite at a time'!
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 26 Jul 2022 10:31PM
I hate all this benefits form filling, so my heart goes out to others doing it.  Big hugs and fingers crossed, DD & KK.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 01 Aug 2022 07:39PM
Cheers, Sunny - pleased to report that I have finished the wretched thing  :Cartwheel_by_livius: and just need to use Dad's printer (my own is knacked) to photocopy it on Wednesday and then consign it to the Royal Mail:  it's like having a dark cloud lifted, not having to think about it any more.  The trouble with that sort of DWP form is it makes one dwell on things that are best not thought about in depth, if you know what I mean - and you probably do!
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Monic1511 on 01 Aug 2022 09:19PM
I know exactly what you mean Kizzy, when i was doing them for people you could see them getting depressed because I emphasised all the things they couldn’t do so I’d have to make them laugh and got a reputation for being the lassie with the twisted sense of humour.  When someone tells me they struggle to walk & I referred them to mobility scooters that go at 8 mile an hour up and down the shopping centre where I suggested they race each other.  Prompting and encouragement was translated as “ does your partner nag you” nagging becomes positive along with the eye rolls.


Good luck and I hope you get the reply you need
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 02 Aug 2022 09:32AM
Yay Kizzy!  :f_hug:
What a relief to get the dreaded form out of the way.  :biggrin:


I received a text yesterday confirming receipt of my form so now it's just the wait!


Good luck for both of us  :xfingers:



Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 03 Aug 2022 03:47PM
I hate the fact that we should think it needs luck.  You're both genuinely disabled and will have put in honest claims.

But given that the system's corrupt, so that being genuinely entitled isn't enough, I cling onto the fact that you're both articulate and have been savvy enough to check out your rights and what criteria you need to satisfy, to make it harder for decision-makers to unjustly turn you down on a pretext.

Yes, under the current PIP assessment system where you're no longer assessed simply on your genuine needs, but on your ability to convince the decision-maker that you're harder to wrongfully turn down than  others, I think you are both in with a good chance of being awarded Persistent Initiative Prizes.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Monic1511 on 03 Aug 2022 05:12PM
The luck is in which decision maker’s desk your form ends up on.  We can all interpret things differently, when someone says to me I can’t work because I had 1 nighttime seizure 10 months ago and I’m sitting there working thinking I had 2 seizures yesterday but hey ho, I have to try and not be judgemental. I’d imagine it’s similar for decision makers especially when DWP is 1 of the few places that employs disabled adults.


The problem is they forget the additional tests of can the task be done repeatedly reliably and safely.


When I did the representation I knew what the decision makers attitude was by their names, certain ones always had the same opinion and we kept a chart of the worst decision makers and fed back to DWP that we always won the appeals done by that dm and that individual needs additional training  :f_peacedove:
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 03 Aug 2022 07:25PM
Something I think that the PIP categorised points system doesn't properly allow for is forms of disability arising from overlap between more than one impairment.  You could have two impairments, neither of which is worth points, but the intersectionality of which is definitely worth points. 

Also, it's bad enough that in various fields of medicine there are prejudices and stereotypes, but those will, I believe, inevitably come through in benefits assessments as well.

I could rant forever about these issues, so count yourselves lucky that I'm restraining myself! 
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 04 Aug 2022 10:13AM
You raise some interesting points Sunny.


I wrote on my application how having multiple conditions compounds the effects of each of them so that the overall result is greater than perhaps imagined if each condition was considered in isolation to the others.


Sometimes, I don't think people understand how hard it is to manage conflicting symptoms and side effects of medications.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 08 Aug 2022 09:17PM
Monic - thank you for your good wishes and I think dark humour is often the best way to deal with these sorts of things (though don't tell the PIP decision makers that we dare to have a laugh, it might be interpreted as 'learning to manage one's condition'  :f_winkeye: )

Sunny and DD, totally get what you're saying about overlaps;  I was once told by a psychiatrist that I 'had a bit of everything'  :f_laugh:


No text yet to confirm receipt of form, but I did only post it last Thursday, so we shall see!
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 09 Aug 2022 10:24AM
Aargh, psychiatry and diagnosis...

Psychiatry went all American manual, category, sub-category, box-tick yonks ago, and there's an aspect I hate...

Let's say the psychiatrist suspects that the correct label for your problems is Oucher Syndrome.  The diagnostic manual has some meaningless blurb to describe it followed by 8 criteria.  If you meet 5, they stick the label on you, and if not, they go rummaging for a different label.

Bingo, the psychiatrist can five 5 boxes to tick, so you've got Oucher Syndrome.  Now every time you encounter a psychiatrist, a psychiatric nurse, or anyone else that knows or thinks they know what Oucher Syndrome is, you'll be treated as if you meet all 8 criteria.

In my case, with bipolar disorder, that caused immense problems, immense harm.

To give an example, not the most damaging long-term, but the easiest to describe.  You've all noticed how long-winded and explanatory I am.  It's nothing to what I'm like when I'm being 'assessed' or 'judged'.  I go into full-on defend & excuse myself mode.  I do it most when I'm most depressed, and when life experiences are getting to me most, particularly when people have been horrid to me (I don't mean everyday disagreements, I mean serious stuff).  But talkativeness and going off on tangents registers with mental health professionals as manic, so for years when I hit rock bottom emotionally, the psychiatrists would hit me with anti-manic lower-the-mood zombie-the-patient pills, making my mood even worse and leaving me less able to get myself out of whatever horrible life situation was depressing and stressing me.

And that happens with so many conditions.  I'm not saying it doesn't happen with physical conditions - far from it - just that it's a really nasty aspect of psychiatry.
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: ditchdwellers on 26 Sep 2022 11:56AM
Hi Kizzy
Have you had any news about your PIP form yet?
I've not heard a thing. I'm hoping no news is good news........
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Monic1511 on 26 Sep 2022 01:08PM
Hi DD


You’ll probably not hear for at least 18 weeks, I think I saw a report saying the DWP were extending existing PIP awards by 1 year so your current award shouldn’t end either.


I think you did say you got a text confirming receipt of the claim, now it’s the hard part of waiting  :big_hugs:
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 27 Sep 2022 04:55PM
Wotcha DD - nope, not a sausage..  though now Monic has said about the likely 18-week wait (thanks, Monic) I shan't be watching the post with such trepidation now  :f_erm:


Been thinking the same about the 'no news is good news', ie at least I've not (yet) had a summons to see a 'health professional' or whatever they call themselves.  All my PIP/DLA claims to date have been decided purely on the evidence supplied on and with the claim form, so I remain hopeful!
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: KizzyKazaer on 27 Sep 2022 05:04PM
PS Sunny - I am exactly the same with the 'defend/excuse' mode you mentioned, especially having been deemed by MH professionals as 'intelligent and articulate', as if that were some sort of protection against extreme mental distress (actually, I think it can make it worse: as a trusted former psychotherapist told me, 'you can see what you're losing'.)  Too much knowledge a dangerous thing, perhaps?
Title: Re: How to Fill in a PIP Review Form
Post by: Sunny Clouds on 28 Sep 2022 10:31PM
Yes, that makes sense.

That being said, I'm afraid I think the whole issue of intelligence is a messy area anyway, because we keep changing the way we conceptualise it and test it, so I think it's a mixture of what I'll call in my non-technical jargon general intelligence, particular sorts of intelligence, and impact of things like education and life experiences on intelligence.

I to think though, that what we tend to assess and accept as 'intelligence', which I'd characterise as being 'the ability to make sense of IQ tests and school exams and the like' can be very analytical and very problem-solving (in a myriad of ways), so I can see that that could definitely rebound in terms of seeing negatives.