Author Topic: Unity, Division or getting what you can for yourself because the system is brok  (Read 603 times)

On the edge

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I wish I was surprised, but I'm not.  (Warning, leftie anti-small-state political rant.)  There's a type of neoliberal politics, introduced to this country by Thatcher, and eagerly pursued by our current government, that's 'small state', mainly dismantling public services by 'defund, demoralise, privatise'.  Of course, that only means privatising the profitable bits - just abandon the rest and let philanthropy and 'natural selection' sort it.

I'm amazed anyone can still recruit social workers.  I have my suspicion that what in America is called the Great Resignation, where a shortage of some sorts of workers is leading to loads of workers retiring early, leading to more shortages and workers being pickier.

Here, we have doctors and nurses quitting.  Some of you will have read or maybe seen the documentary about Operose-owned GP practices, which are massively understaffed, with lots of the GPs replaced by Physicians Assistants, and incoming correspondance dealt with by non-clinical staff, who decide whether to file or pass on to a GP or PA.  Etc., etc.

So why would anyone want to work in public service in any D,D,P role?


While absolutely not endorsing thatcher the issue really was the daft edicts of inclusion diversity and new norms that made a social worker a prime target for everyone.  In part, they deserved the criticisms they got, acting first to protect their own backs against the interests of their charges.  When any grey areas appear section/remove etc. Parent's lost children, disabled left unsupported, unrepresented, and now and then parked off to homes somewhere. I distinctly recall taking a social worker to task over an issue of support for my autistic child and they sent me an e-mail link... to the LA accountant! They said they make the decisions not me.  I took her to court and got what I asked for.  She resigned 2 weeks after.  her employers got away scot-free disowning her.

« Last Edit: 31 Aug 2022 03:04PM by Sunshine Meadows »

On the edge

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Re: Re: Shortage of Social Workers
« Reply #1 on: 30 Aug 2022 09:11AM »

While absolutely not endorsing thatcher the issue really was the daft edicts of inclusion diversity and new norms that made a social worker a prime target for everyone. 

I will not pretend to understand why you appear to have such an ongoing objection to inclusion and diversity.  Humans have diverse impairments and recognition of that plus inclusion is, for me, at the heart of disability equality.  As a general principle, I live my life by Pfarrer (Pastor/Reverend) Niemoeller's "First they came for..." warning.

However, you may feel satisfied that you have managed yet again to leave me feeling othered here.  Based on our previous interactions, I consider it highly probable that that was your intention.


No intention to offend. I was quoting issues I encountered at the SS, my son has no social worker at all now, the LA removed them from 60 clients here, no staff to meet the need, and too much pressure put on SW by their employers, who quoted 'diversity issues' as an excuse, and as a reason for lack of support.  Basically, too many diverse areas to help and too many new 'rules' to follow, the system has collapsed. 


The people needing inclusion are not the ones getting it or being recognized, I think that proof is pretty much extant and explained here.   Social services are no longer a system, the Deaf SS e.g. folded 18 YEARS ago.  In retrospect, the SW I encountered was 100% correct, in that accountants are making decisions on cost, not need. Sadly I had to use whatever leverage I had, my child comes first,  so she went to the wall abandoned by her employer. 


I think this site is good, but we need to 'man up' really and face the realities of what is going on, and what IS going on, is every man/woman for themselves.  Divide and rule was always that state option, it is now ours too.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Re: Shortage of Social Workers
« Reply #2 on: 30 Aug 2022 11:45AM »
I think this site is good, but we need to 'man up' really and face the realities of what is going on, and what IS going on, is every man/woman for themselves.  Divide and rule was always that state option, it is now ours too.

I think that's what Pfarrer Niemoeller also thought in the thirties.  I have always admired his guts for teaching those that would listen what happened to him.  Thus I think your approach and mine are irreconcilable.  I do not expect to find myself in a world where there is anyone left to stand up for me, to help me, if I do not do what I can to stand up for others, to help others.

Not quid pro quo, me helped by those that I helped on an individual basis, but teamwork.  I think that I have been strongly influenced in this by the community in which I grew up and by things like my military background. 

My reasoning is that if cuts are made so that fewer people that need help can get it, if I focus only on fighting to be one of those that gets help, not on fighting the cuts, the cuts will continue and in due course I will lose my help anyway, but there'll be no one to stand alongside me and fight for my right.

That being said, although it's probably not what you meant by this paragraph, although it would be a literal interpretation, I don't want this site to have a divide and rule ethos.  You can keep working at making it that way and maybe you'll succeed, and maybe division will suit you, but you wouldn't be ruling, would you, because it's not your site. 

So to translate that back into the world of disability help and entitlements, if we play divide and rule, we may succeed in dividing, but we won't be ruling, because we're not the ones handling the budgets, we're not the ones ruling the country.



(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

On the edge

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Re: Re: Shortage of Social Workers
« Reply #3 on: 30 Aug 2022 07:09PM »
I think this site is good, but we need to 'man up' really and face the realities of what is going on, and what IS going on, is every man/woman for themselves.  Divide and rule was always that state option, it is now ours too.

I think that's what Pfarrer Niemoeller also thought in the thirties.  I have always admired his guts for teaching those that would listen what happened to him.  Thus I think your approach and mine are irreconcilable.  I do not expect to find myself in a world where there is anyone left to stand up for me, to help me, if I do not do what I can to stand up for others, to help others.

Not quid pro quo, me helped by those that I helped on an individual basis, but teamwork.  I think that I have been strongly influenced in this by the community in which I grew up and by things like my military background. 

My reasoning is that if cuts are made so that fewer people that need help can get it, if I focus only on fighting to be one of those that gets help, not on fighting the cuts, the cuts will continue and in due course I will lose my help anyway, but there'll be no one to stand alongside me and fight for my right.

That being said, although it's probably not what you meant by this paragraph, although it would be a literal interpretation, I don't want this site to have a divide and rule ethos.  You can keep working at making it that way and maybe you'll succeed, and maybe division will suit you, but you wouldn't be ruling, would you, because it's not your site. 

So to translate that back into the world of disability help and entitlements, if we play divide and rule, we may succeed in dividing, but we won't be ruling, because we're not the ones handling the budgets, we're not the ones ruling the country.


 I don't support division I acknowledge it already exists, we have to choose our targets.  Help the most vulnerable and work back from there, but too many areas are now 'going it alone' regardless of pleas for unity, I was just stating that reality, while we blame 'systems' we are taking our eyes off the ball and a lot of division and selfishness is coming from within.  I suspect they have adopted the view as I did a while ago if you need something you have to fight for it yourself, obviously that means those who can't are left to make whatever they can from whatever exists, relying on useless charity, who take in  £90m a year+ for doing that and doing... nothing at all, and they speak for me and you.


YES, there are areas that demand rights I DON'T support, as we live in a democracy, that is my right too.  I think that is OK, 79m live on this island supporting 79m causes isn't viable. I've heard (relatively speaking!) responses that this is hostile and whatever, regarding equality, I don't buy it, it's a great excuse to shut down objections 'though.  BBC dumped us very easily and installed their own 'disability Images'.  The whole area of disability, gender, and race is now terminologically mined to trip anyone up who disagrees, you cannot say no or disagree.  I would see that as a validated division and discrimination.  We both fight the systems in our own way, but we both know we are back to square one again, I cannot fight everyone's battles and neither can you, the unity to go forward doesn't exist either.

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Re: Shortage of Social Workers
« Reply #4 on: 30 Aug 2022 07:41PM »
I'm not clear what your point is in preaching to us about how we have to each look after our own interests when we've been working together in unity to support one another in these difficult times.

I can't get my head round how, for instance, your approach would help us to cope with our recent loss here better than trying to help one another?
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunny Clouds

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Re: Re: Shortage of Social Workers
« Reply #5 on: 31 Aug 2022 12:22AM »
Quote
YES, there are areas that demand rights I DON'T support,

Which you previously made explicitly clear in here, particularly with negative comments about people of different heritage. 

I'm not sure what your motive is in coming here now. 

I had seen Ouchtoo as an inclusive community.   You say "the unity to go forward doesn't exist either."  Do you mean that our unity doesn't exist now we've lost Fizz? 

I'm struggling with all this.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for or what you're getting out of this except demoralising those of us (maybe it's just me?) that value Ouchtoo for its inclusiveness of diversity and how we help, as best we can, however little it is, others here.

I can't survive alone in this world.  I can't fight all my battles alone.  I give what I can and take what others can give.  If we give up on unity, we give up on life.  We give up our  hope. 

But if you feel we don't need unity, what's there for you here?  Do you want us to all give up hope?  See ourselves as alone, not as part of a community, not just here but in the world around us?

I'm oscillating back and forth between clinging onto my sense that we survive in this world by working together by helping one another at whatever level, and feeling that you're right, it's a world where we're on our own and those around us will just fight for what they can get individually and those of us that in one context or another can't might as well just give up.


(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)

Sunshine Meadows

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Okay so this is going to be a stream of consciousness not a preplanned examination etc.


Remember back in 2011 when the BBC closed down Ouch and a great number of people moved over here to Ouch Too. We worked together on how the message board would be run and i t was very successful for a while. The Spartacus group seemed to have the campaigning side of things covered so we shifted our focus to mutual support, and welfare benefits advice.  We were united in our lived experiences of disability, and we did a good job of avoiding hierarchy of disabilities.


I think we had a Golden Age in which Kizzy and I managed to give people a level of freedom to speak to shout and to be free (sort of). From time to time okay sometimes every day for weeks I would have to manage the expectations of a small group of individuals and this could be wearing as over and over again the same people acting like their individual needs gave them an edge when it came to us keeping things inclusive.


Today I read some posts that were talking about fighting for everyone or fighting for yourself and you particular needs. I will add them to this thread after this gets posted.
I opened talking about Ouch Too because it is a good example of how people working together can achieve greatness. At the same time there are always going to be individuals behaving like little chicks with yellow edged mouths open taking more than they should. More time and attention to the detriment of others. Most are gone or choose to no longer participate.


Given that all services for disabled people have been cut into the bone I can see why people may focus on there needs but what matters to me is that they do this with self awareness of others. It is a bit like what got said in Game of Thrones 'We need to break the wheel' and we do but the question is how?


I probably wont ever ask for another assessment for help because the last one was so traumatic. Hmm the thing is the money that goes into being goods and services for disabled people fuels our local economies. Interesting that I have gone it first person mode.


sorry tired now.


We are better together and people here have got me through hard times. Maybe using Ouch Too to illustrate a approach to this thread was not the best idea.
« Last Edit: 31 Aug 2022 03:08PM by Sunshine Meadows »

Monic1511

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Ok guys
I’m really confused now.
1st we are all people, we have different barriers that we struggle with and that can cause division. As a person I try to help others if I see a need and think I can assist.
As for unity that’s a very old thing of divide and conquer, division is pointing out other folks differences and in the 1st individuals view their problems.  If it isn’t going to help then keep your opinions to yourself.  I know I’m overweight, other folk telling me that doesn’t help. It only increases my vulnerability.


I’m no longer sure who was upset by what or why, there are many diversities and working on the council I used to dread dealing with folk who took offensive because I got things wrong. I’ve looked at the thread and can see folk being upset at social workers who are not perfect. It’s the most stressful office I worked in and trying to support the staff as they tried to help their clients within the law and without harming anyone was very difficult. Staff arrived 2 hours before start time, were there 90 mins after finishing time but it’s never enough because central government holds the funding reins.


We can be united going forward. 
We are moving into a deeper recession in the UK with the cost of living crisis, we need to be here to listen to each other’s rants, give tips if we think we have them, I’m wary of trying to tell folk with a limited budget how to budget better as I’d expected to get thumped for my arrogance.


Fizz was a prolific poster as she felt safer here. We have lost a bit of that when she’s died and I miss her even if she was just offloading. That’s what this is for.


I’ve left working as my health can’t cope but I still visit here as I still have WRO knowledge like Kizzy & Sunshine Meadows have their specialities.
We all have something positive to contribute but when we are down in the dumps we need to look for the positive.
It feels like we all need to get back to the Be Kind motto as no one knows where the others are right now.


If someone says something you perceive as cruel please take a step back and ignore them if you can.  Not because we need to excuse it but if someone hurts me I hide my wound rather than say that hurt why did you do it. That’s my trust issues coming out but if they don’t see a wound they stop aiming at me that way.


I hope we can all keep travelling together as our overall situation is likely to get worse before it gets better.
 :f_peacedove:
Monic






Sunshine Meadows

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Monic well said  :f_peacedove:  (my phone is being problematic I will add more later  :f_smiley: )














Sunshine Meadows

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I am on my desktop now  :biggrin:


Monic's post helped me thing more about the topics of this thread. Being kind is the best road to take and at the same time the 'good' people helping others need to have their empathy and soulful natures protected from harm or they are going to burn out.  It is also up to us as individual's not to take too much on whenever we have a choice in that.


In terms of personal responsibility there are always going to be people who put their self first in an aggressive way that does not care for the welfare and social system. Someone shouting at a welfare adviser does not change the benefits available to them. It makes the advisors life harder and affects the service they are able to offer.


I got triggered by OtE's posts because of what he was saying and also because of his past history here. As the provider of the message board I have wondered why I let my individual needs and opinions drive some of the actions I made over the years. I wonder what could have been right now. Then I remember other situations in my family life have severely limited my ability to write freely, have the time and the energy.


I know there is only a handful of use here now and I am wondering about our legacy. Maybe posting more News and information would help get filtered further than here.  I might try it and see how it goes.


Monic you have been a soldier in a war you never really signed up for- Thank you for your service.
 :f_peacedove:

Sunny Clouds

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I think the reason I reacted so strongly, in addition to feeling jumpy that OtE might follow up his references to diversity etc. by repeating comments he previously made here relating to people from ethnic minorities, was that I'm struggling and clinging onto a sense of people standing united to fight for a fair deal.

I'm constantly scared that won't work.  That's not to frighten anyone.  Just that I'm really good at doom and gloom.

So the notion that we each fight our own corner is, for me, scary. 

And the notion that trying to cater for things like diversity and inclusion are a problem is for me very, very scary.

But maybe for the likes of OtE, just as I cling onto unity for hope, maybe he's reached the point of clinging onto a sense of just try to survive.  As he says (general gist, not checking words) we can't fight everyone's battles.

No easy answer to any of this.  If there was, campaign groups, charities, political parties etc. wouldn't exist. 

As for the future of this site, I thin that if more people don't join it, it won't be viable, but nothing, absolutely nothing, can ever take away the help it's given us.  I will forever be grateful for the help I've received from other Ouchers.
(I'm an obsessive problem-solver, so feel free to ignore any suggestions or solutions I offer, even if they sound terribly insistent.)