Wearing a face covering in public

[Sunny Clouds]

I'm surprised I'm still upset about the dance thing.  I think it's symbolic.  It's not really the mask aspect of it, it's just the mask was the particular issue on that particular day.

I wonder how many people objecting to masks are objecting to them as a proxy or because it's the final straw on something etc?

Mind you, since I'm trying to cheer myself up, I'll share something I find wryly funny.  Before the pandemic, rebels in society, fighting back against being controlled by whoever, were trying to hide from facial recognition cameras by wearing muffs, scarves, facepaint and masks, particularly Anonymous masks.   Every time I see people marching against masks, I wonder how many of them were marching with masks on a couple of years ago.

Yup, in the midst of wading through this morass of information, personal decisions etc., and in the midst of reading all the interesting info and views here, e.g. on the shorfalls in mask effectiveness, I find comfort in absurdities.

[Fiz]

I think because numbers are so high organisations are getting stricter and many are reinstating restrictions despite them not legally having to. On balance, I think it's better to be more cautious than necessary than not cautious enough. Several people I know have returned to full strict shielding at home.

[Sunny Clouds]

I think it makes sense to take care.  I just also know that if you have an aerobic dance class for oldies, if you say all have got to wear a mask, you've basically closed the class.  As I type that, and think of the illogicality of telling us we can no longer have the doors open during the class to let the fresh air circulate, I think what they're really trying to do is to close the class.

Further, my gut feeling is that it's coming from what I'll call junior management.  Maybe they're not happy with the council keeping the building open.  That could be awkwardness or it could be that senior management isn't having sufficient regard to worker safety in ways that I wouldn't see.  The person who was testing our temperatures didn't have a mask on.

They were a pain over a number of things before the pandemic.  E.g. wanting us to wait outside in the rain until the moment our session started, despite the building then also functioning as a community drop-in centre.  I suspected that that was a staff/management face-off over lunch break cover or something.

So if I'm right, and it's only suspicion and reasoning, the main factor here is masks being a proxy for 'office politics'.  Or maybe I just suspect that because that's what happens with so many things in this world. 

How's the world supposed to cope with the likes of me?  I'm thinking of those deafie conflicts in my head "Grrh I can't lipread through that mask, aargh don't take it off, I don't want the trendy virus!"  I find myself making an effort to look grateful whether, in their effort to be kind, they judge it best to keep their mask on or take it off, doing my best to hide it if I'm feeling panic.

I have never in my life had so many panic attacks as I'm having these days.  I'm trying to build up a collection of non-judgmental phrases that convey an underlying message of "Don't worry, I'm just anxious about something else so don't feel it's directed at you."

[Fiz]

I would suspect that rather than office politics, the strict rules are triggered by fear from someone. Maybe someone in the heirarchy has lost someone to Covid and the rising numbers is creating fear and that fearful person is key in creating rules. 

[Sunny Clouds]

Yes, fear would make sense.  And if it's fear causing it, I don't lack sympathy for those that may be afraid.

I just wish they'd be logical about it.  I've now checked it out and found it's just to cross from the front door to the main room.  How much more do I exhale in reception whilst getting a mask out of my bag and putting it on to walk fewer than a dozen paces?

But fear on someone's part would explain it, and now as I type this looking at my own behaviour, if you'd seen some of the daftness that arises from my obsessive compulsive traits, I can't argue my steps to alleviate fear are as logical as they should be, so I need to show some tolerance to others with procedures born of fear that I consider to be illogical.

[ditchdwellers]

Not all fear has to be logical Sunny. 

[Sunny Clouds]

I expressed myself badly.

"I need to show some tolerance to others with procedures born of fear that I consider to be illogical."

Should have been differently sequenced to avoid ambiguity, maybe something like.

"I need to show some tolerance to others with procedures that I consider to be illogical but which are born of fear."

Or

"I need to show some tolerance to others with procedures born of fear, where I consider those procedures to be illogical."

Given that fear is on one level an emotional reaction to perceived threat, logic doesn't come into it.  On the other hand, continuing to be afraid can vary massively in its logic.  I have, more than once, been attacked by strange dogs, to the utter shock of their owners.  I am aware that people working in the sad business of having dogs that attack people put down say that owners almost always react, seemingly genuinely, with "But my dog's never done that before."  On the other hand, statistically, severe attacks by dogs are fairly rare.

So if I see a dog coming, seemingly under control and obedient, I'm ok.  But if one suddenly appears in my field of vision, there's a good chance I'll have a panic attack, and if I see a dog off the lead and not walking to heel, many's the time I've stumbled as I've dashed into a driveway or out into the road.

I've worked hard at damping down my fear.  I've even dog-sat for neighbours.  But there's a level at which it never actually goes away.

I think you can argue that the actual fear is still logical because pathways are established in the brain, but that some of my behaviour is not, because I know that statistically dogs I meet are unlikely, even if not under control, to attack me.

After typing all that and tweaking it, I realise that my hair-splitting over what I think and mean is a bit pointless since whether it's the fear or what's done because of it I'm saying I should be tolerant of the illogicality of, it's the tolerance that matters, isn't it?
 

[Fiz]

It's been announced by BJ (only just cottoned on to the irony of his initials) that mask wearing in public indoor places will become mandatory again due to the latest variant found from foreign and national residents.

[Sunny Clouds]

I don't think the government saying it will be enough by itself.  It'll take widespread social pressure.  We'll see how that works out.

[ally]

We haven’t been out in public areas without a mask.  We’re not mixing with many people, and avoiding the public the best we can when out.  Yet, we’ve gone down with the virus from hell.  We’ve had for two weeks now, and, it’s still ongoing.  The worse throat infection we’ve ever had.  Upper respiratory infection, nose bleeds, coughing,  the lot.  We’ve done lateral flow tests at home which were all negative.  To make sure it wasn’t covid, my husband went online on a government site to have PCR tests.  However, we’re not eligible, as we’re out of time to have one.   Same with covid stations.  Therefore, there must be many in our situation.  We could have covid, but, can’t find out. Hopefully, it’s just a virus that’s hitting many people now, and, it’s not covid.

[Sunny Clouds]

 

Whatever it is, big hugs.

I hope you've got all you need in terms of things like food supplies.

[Fiz]

   sorry to hear that ally.


I met with a friend for lunch on Friday and the weekend before she'd been incapacitated and off her feet with a virus. She physically was able to get a PCR done Monday and the results came back negative so she (ex GP) immediately thinks she had flu. She looked pretty tough when I saw her on Friday and I wished that I had had the assertiveness to postpone as I really hadn't been happy to meet up with her. The BMJ cite a false negative PCR rate of 30% so even a negative doesn't mean you're definitely negative. I think the key thing ally, is unlike my friend, you're right to assume you do have it and take measures not to pass it on and protect others so you're doing what we all need to do. I'm taking 1000mg vitamin C, zinc, echinacea and a multivitamin daily in the hope of bolstering my protection in case my friend was actually positive.


I'm due to go to the ballet on Friday, tickets bought 2 years ago 1 year ahead of the show which was then postponed due to Covid. You can't ask for a refund because you don't want to sit in a theatre with thousands of people. I'm just going to go, masks will be mandatory at least and I will take hand gel.

[ditchdwellers]

Ally I completely sympathise with you.There seem to be various really nasty cold viruses going around at the moment.

I haven't been out in public areas without a mask either ally, and I too have some sort of stinking cold virus.
 Last night I had a trip out to the local Urgent Treatment Centre for an ear infection and I was ushered into a quiet isolation area with a bed straight away, despite telling the triage nurse I had done a Covid test with a negative result. At least I was seen quickly and handed my antibiotics so I didn't have to hang around A&E.


I caught my cold from my husband. He wears a mask at work and in public. He gets really annoyed by people not social distancing or mask wearing. What winds him up the most is people who wear their mask as a neck warmer or otherwise incorrectly. Particularly shop staff.


I hope you begin to feel better soon and some of the symptoms start to subside 

[ally]

Thanks to everyone who replied.  I hope you don’t think I posted for sympathy.   I won’t deny it helps. However, I was trying to make this forum aware that you can pick up a virus although you’re wearing a mask in public places.  As mentioned, we’re always covid aware when out.  It’s really knocked my confidence.  The only place I can think of where we were sitting inside an enclosed area, was the dentist waiting room.  We weren’t there that long, as it was cancelled when she rang in sick.  I have an apt there in two days time,  for a cracked tooth.  If I go in like this, I could give it to her.  If I don’t go, it may be April when I’m seen to next.  My husband had to fight for the apt, as the waiting list to be seen is horrendous. 

[Fiz]

Viruses can live on surfaces we touch for a various numbers of hours depending on the pourousness of the surface and the type of virus. That means we can get a virus from being in an environment but also from handling shopping or post that has arrived in an online delivery or through the letterbox. I think in lockdown one people were wearing gloves to take in shopping, wiping the shopping and bags and gelling hands afterwards and then doing the same when unwrapping food from containers for 5 days after it arrived and not touching the mail for 5 days but of the people that I know who were as stringent as that, they've all stopped the hygiene and isolation of shopping deliveries and mail. Probably due to pandemic fatigue. It's not really possible to know where we pick viruses up from but I doubt we can pinpoint it unless we've only left the house the once and no object or person has entered our home. Hopefully Boris's announcement to make mask wearing mandatory again will make people more aware and careful again. Too many people think the danger has passed.


That said, almost all people in ICU due to Covid now are the unvaccinated but I think the vaccines don't protect people from getting Covid at flu like severity and feeling very unwell. I suspect the public think that is okay though and aren't prepared to restrict their lives to reduce people experiencing that.


The NHS workers I know think Covid is as much a part of our lives now as flu is and that inevitably we're looking at annual vaccinations for the foreseeable and the majority will cope with the virus and recover.