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Talk / Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 17 Sep 2021 10:17PM »
Doesn't whether a deaf person can do a job on pretty much equal terms with a non-deaf person depend on the job?

I can think of jobs where you'd need a relatively low level of fluency in English to function, albeit needing to work in the context of others doing what I'll call the liaising, i.e. others in those roles in an organisation, or agents.

I realise that many roles aren't going to be there without lots of extra help, but doesn't that apply to people with a whole range of differences, difficulties & disabilities?

I can think of various functions involving repairing and servicing physical things where you could do it in the context of an organisation.  Or various forms of creative artwork and design.  There's a lot in the way of sewing, knitting, patchworking etc. 

I think it'll always be difficult, and certainly I'd want to  make every effort to help every child and adult to be as fluent as they are capable of in the language(s) used in their local community,  facilities and workplace, which in the UK is mostly English, I just feel that I'm concerned that over-emphasis on language can go both ways.  A person who's first language is BSL or other sign language may feel defensive if they perceive they're being seen as inadequate if their English isn't fluent.

Your reference to the number of deaf schools puzzled me so I looked it up, and yes, it appears there are 22.

But what doesn't make sense to me is that there's one very, very close to me that isn't on the list I found.  Then I thought how it's on a campus with other schools and part of a MAT, so maybe it's not technically a separate school, just a separate 'unit'.
Talk / Re: BBC moan (plus thread-drift)
« Last post by On the edge on 17 Sep 2021 08:03PM »
Everyone's experience is different.  Education in my time at school was totally geared around us being 'factory fodder'.  Education is or was, based on teaching you skills future employers and advances/options are going to want to hire you for.  To that end there were essential 'basics' that you did not get a choice to opt-out of, these were learning the host country language of course, and the 3R's.  Deaf did not have an opt-out either, many older deaf I met had copper-plate handwriting and didn't use BSL at all, but predominantly finger-spelled everything.

Deaf were taught that way to acquire essential spelling and English skills.  Since 1970 onwards such skills have fallen as they argue over how a deaf child should be taught and included, or using English at ALL is a bad thing and a discrimination against deaf people.  They never actually define who these 'deaf people' are, they base it on old deaf school basis, that no longer exists and hasn't for 15+ years or more to my knowledge.

There used to be 100s of deaf schools UK-wide now less than 20 survive, there used to be twice as many deaf clubs and they are decimated now, some activists are flying in the face of the reality. The very first BDDA filmed meeting showed no BSL (which is a late 60s/70s thing).  In areas e.g. Cornwall, fingerspelling was the dominant form of deaf 'signing' the dictionary, much challenged but accepted, later gave sign 'BSL' even language status.  Go back pre-1970s next to no mention of BSL exists.

Today 'some' deaf feel they can choose to opt-in or out of the mainstream, make demands others must comply with, they can't, and then ignore the consequences.  As deaf people, we cannot pick and choose what we do, we don't have the skills or choices to do that, or the society to go with it. The reality as I stated before is deaf today i.e. rank and file, know and adapt anyway, it is these pointless and divisive 'inclusion' demands being made by people who basically don't represent anyone really,  but make a living selling the dream of some deaf 'utopia' ignoring the huge disadvantage deafness and communication issues present. 

We can do everything but hear, erm, no, we can't actually.  A lot originates where most ill-thought-out ideas do, in the USA. My view is my own a lot don't agree with it, When choice is not an option, then you adapt far quicker.   For the record 68% of ALL deaf do the same, ask any BSL interpreter, whose services they never use or need to.

I think 'Deaf' choice is misunderstood, without the skill alternatives and education, it does not work. It's the same with any child. So we are back to the foibles of deaf education again, you have to start day one with how you mean to go on.  That means a bilingual education that takes into account the mainstream is not going to give concessions or make allowances, and deaf have to adapt or go without.

Deaf have to compete 100s to 1 with people who can hear and speak, have much higher literacy, and present fewer issues to employers etc.  Taking the moral higher ground isn't helpful or useful, employers will take the hearing first, so not only do we have to be equivalent to hearing peers, but indeed better to stand still. It's unfair? Life is.
Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 16 Sep 2021 07:45PM »
I've been flu jabbified and I'm very tired but I don't think it's actually the jab that's done it, just my usual go out, be active, come home, wilt thing.

Mind you, that was improving and it's worsened and I now think that a significant aspect is inadequate fluid, which would then leave me wilting if I get more exercise.

How easy it would be, though, having had a jab, to come home and attribute how I felt to that jab.  My bowels aren't very happy today, which I know is down to what I ate yesterday, but again, if I hadn't made the connection, how easy it would be to think the flu jab had upset my gut.

I'm not dismissing side-effects.  I'm aware that people can and do get side-effects from flu jabs.  I'm just musing on how I, and I assume (?) others, can find myself noticing things more if I've done something different.
Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 05:08PM »
Oh well, whilst I dither over whether we should or shouldn't expect others to have covid jabs, and if so, who, and whether or not they should have to prove it etc., I've had a text telling me my GP's got some flu jabs and to phone to book an appointment.  I phoned and was told just to drop in any time they're open.

So at least I can reduce my likelihood of dying from flu as well as reducing my likelihood of dying from covid.  Now can I have a vaccine against dangerous drivers?
Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 04:39PM »
More musings...

I suppose for me, there is a covid passport issue insofar as I don't like the fact that in some contexts they're being enmeshed in a modern NHS app system with facial recognition, with involvement of private companies.

I don't like what's happened in China and, to a lesser extent, in some other parts of the world, where your face enables you to be tightly tracked and monitored, and it's my understanding that not many countries in the world have as many CCTV cameras in public places as ours. 

So I find myself wondering how far my views on vaccine passports are coloured by my concept of them.  A vaccine passport as a printed item, perhaps with a photo on it, or with a name, address and also the reference number of a photo ID doesn't bother me in the same way.  Perhaps it should.  If the government is happy to let private companies have loads of NHS data, why wouldn't they let them have loads of passport data and driving licence data etc?  The government is pushing for mandatory voter ID, which in practice means intense pressure for every adult to have photo ID, probably in part via introducing a voter card or via introducing a photo NHS card.

Oh dear, so many tangled issues.  I believe in vaccinations, I want vaccinations, but the increasing passion by successive national governments in the UK for more and more ID and entwining of databases make this seem like just another way of deepening that, which isn't just something I don't like, it's something that seriously frightens me.

Oh well.  So much for my thinking my thoughts on this were clear.
Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 04:05PM »
I value free choice, but can think of quite a few job roles where vaccination against a range of diseases is or would be a reasonable requirement.

People don't seem to object to health professionals and soldiers etc. being expected to have certain other vaccinations. 

And likewise, broadly as a society we accept certain limitations on what people are permitted to do or where they're permitted to go based on what precautions they're prepared to take.  E.g. don't ride a motorbike without a helmet, don't drive if you've got epilepsy that's not been under control for a certain period of time (which for some drivers in effect means don't drive if you're not taking epilepsy medication) etc.  There's a whole range of jobs you wouldn't be allowed to do if you didn't cover up open wounds or skin with conditions that cause it to shed.

So I wouldn't object to vaccination being a requirement for a range of jobs, particularly those involving contact with others who don't have a choice whether to come into contact with you, such as police, prison warders, soldiers, health professionals in non-elective treatment areas, front line jobcentre staff, public transport workers not in a closed cab or booth etc.

I suppose one could allow for exemptions by turning the requirements upside down, as it were, and say that where I, as a member of the public, am required to do something or am entitled to do something, I am entitled to do it in a vaccine-protected environment once vaccines have been available to all, subject to  limited exceptions.

But then I'm a bit of a rebel in saying that I think that those that need care, be it elders or younger disabled people, and who get it in an institution, are entitled to expect that staff should have flu jabs and that if they don't, the resident should have the right to be moved to an institution where they are, at no cost to the resident.

Oh dear, bolshy me.
Cafe / Re: Old age catching up.
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 03:51PM »
Cafe / Re: Old age catching up.
« Last post by lankou on 15 Sep 2021 03:38PM »

So if it's a bucket you're using, pass it over here, will you?

It was unisex camping/travel urinal of two litres capacity.  I have now purchased a second one to go with it.
Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Fiz on 15 Sep 2021 02:36PM »
Unlike my friend, I don't think the vaccine should be compulsory and I don't feel badly towards anyone who turns down their invitation to have it and value free choice. I don't like the misinformation that I read recently in posts by a friend of a friend which was complete twaddle from a clearly antivaxer but feel people should have the choice. Though I do support it being compulsory for frontline health care workers but sympathise with those that will lose job roles due to not wanting the vaccine. I wasn't sure about having another Covid vaccine but if it's the Pfizer which I trust then I probably will.
Health and Disability / Re: Covid jab
« Last post by Sunny Clouds on 15 Sep 2021 12:47PM »
Ah, but the unvaccinated community includes (but does not comprise solely of - people being individuals not stereotypes) people who don't believe the virus is real, sometimes even when they get it - if you're in ICU, you could still believe it's 'ordinary pneumonia'; people who don't believe you can develop a vaccination that fast; people who are led to disbelief by the conflict between those that say vaccines keep you alive and those that say you can be vaccinated but get covid, i.e. aren't being given a strong message that vaccines can reduce likelihood of getting it, and if you do, reduce the severity of it; people who have been conditioned by years of antivax propaganda; and people so jaded by years of dishonesty and cronyism and exploitation by powerful politicians, corporate interests etc. that they have stopped trusting that any new big event/situation that changes our lives isn't just one more ruse to control and/or exploit us.   Etc.

And that's the tip of the iceberg. I'm seething with fury over the rubbish communication people have had over all this.   I'm a nitpicker with a degree and postgrad qualifications from two different universities, and I've struggled with the convoluted mess of information.

I'm not justifying all the unvaccinated, just saying that I'm aware that there are many that think that not getting vaccinated isn't endangering others. 
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